GRA
Posts: 8647
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:08 pm

edatoakrun wrote:
GRA wrote:
RegGuheert wrote:...Of course it's a very dumb idea to throw away 2/3 of that "excess". A much better idea is to keep nearly all of that excess and charge BEVs or other batteries instead.

As long as you don't have any more excess than you can use immediately for charging...

RegGuheert wrote:... The material costs of batteries quickly outstrip the costs of fuel-cell storage at rather quickly as storage time increases...

What you both seem to be overlooking is that as BEVs replace ICEVs, there will be an ever-increasing supply of inexpensive used cells that have second-life applications in stationary storage installations.

And as new battery costs per kWh continue to fall, used battery prices will probably soon reach very low prices per kWh.

Every significant BEV manufacturer world-wide (except TSLA, for obvious reasons) has already begun repurposing programs for their used packs.

Meaning large-scale hydrogen conversion of electricity for energy storage, is nearly certain to wind up as just another economically non-competitive pipe dream from the Hydrogen lobby.

Not overlooking it at all, e.g.
Hyundai Motor Group and Wärtsilä partner on second-life electric vehicle batteries
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/06/20180627-hmg.html

I'm a huge fan of re-purposing, but until someone gets some life-cycle cost data, the long-term viability of this approach is as speculative as ultimate battery prices or cost-competitive with fossil-fuels H2, and the likely size of the storage needs in a full shift to variable intermittent renewables dwarfs the numbers mentioned in that article.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 8647
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:15 pm

Via GCC:
Nel ASA awarded multi-billion NOK contract for 448 electrolyzers (1 GW) by Nikola Motor
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/06/20180629-nel.html

. . .
    Nel’s electrolyzers are efficient and reliable, making them a natural backbone for our station infrastructure. We’ll begin fleet testing the Nikola hydrogen electric semi-trucks in 2019. The first two stations will be installed in Arizona and California depending on permit timelines. The next 28 stations will be installed on each route outside of Anheuser-Busch’s Breweries or their distribution centers. Each station will produce 700 bar and will be compatible with class 8 trucks and consumer cars. This is an incredibly exciting time and we have now contractually set in motion the largest network of hydrogen in the world.

    —Trevor Milton, Chief Executive Officer of Nikola

The contract includes an initial order for a pre-engineering package of around US$1.5 million, where Nel will develop a station design, including electrolyzers, specifically made for fast fueling of Nikola trucks.

Nel will continue to work, in collaboration with Nikola, to finalize the detailed station design and other technology elements to be deployed for the commercial stations. Nikola has already placed an initial order amounting to more than US$9 million for two demo-stations for which delivery will commence towards the end of 2018. . . .


Also GCC:
Air Liquide and startup STNE partner for the development of hydrogen mobility in China
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/06/20180629-alchina.html

Air Liquide and the Chinese startup STNE (Shanghai Sinotran New Energy Automobile Operation CO., LTD.), have signed a partnership agreement to accelerate the rollout of hydrogen-powered electric truck fleets in China.

Air Liquide is acquiring a minority stake of around €10 million (US$12 million) in STNE, a hydrogen logistics platform designed for urban deliveries of goods, which currently operates a hydrogen station in Shanghai and a fleet of 500 hydrogen-powered trucks. . . .

STNE aims to run a fleet of up to 7,500 trucks and to operate a network of around 25 hydrogen stations by 2020.

I think that's the largest single FCEV fleet in the world, at the moment.
Last edited by GRA on Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 8647
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:19 pm

Via GCC:
DOE to award ~$13.5M to 16 R&D projects for solid-oxide fuel cell technologies
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/07/20180702-doesofc.html

. . . SOFC technologies enable efficient, cost-effective electricity generation from abundant domestic coal and natural gas resources, with minimal use of water and near-zero atmospheric emissions of carbon dioxide and pollutants. The selected projects support the Department’s SOFC program by helping to mature the technology for commercial use to efficiently generate low-cost electricity. . . .

Applications for the latter were sought in two areas of interest (AOI): AOI 1 – Solid Oxide Fuel Cells (SOFC) Core Technology Research and AOI 2 – Core Technology Research and Development (R&D) in Support of Near-Term SOFC Power Systems Prototype Tests.

    AOI 1 supports the following goals and objectives:

    Improve cell performance (power density)

    Reduce system performance degradation

    Improve system reliability and durability

    Cost reduction via improvements in materials and manufacturing

AOI 2 supports projects that address and resolve reliability issues that are related to the long-term operation (a minimum of 5,000 hours) of second-generation SOFC power systems prototype tests in an operational environment. R&D areas of interest included, but were not limited to:


    Cell manufacturing and quality control

    Stack manufacturing and quality control

    Purpose-specific components

    Thermal and flow management between stacks and between modules

    Instrumentation and controls. . . .

A list of the awards is included. Can't say I'm a fan of the mention of coal, but NG with a shift to an increasing % of H2 in NG pipelines is a good interim step.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 8647
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:43 pm

Via GCC:
ARENA announces $1.5M to fund green hydrogen innovation hub in Western Australia; ATCO hydrogen microgrid
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/07/20180705-atco.html

On behalf of the Australian Government, the Australian Renewable Energy Agency (ARENA) has announced $1.5 million toward the funding of Australia’s first green hydrogen innovation hub at Jandakot in Western Australia. Total project value is $3.3 million.

n Jandakot, gas company ATCO will trial the production, storage and use of renewable hydrogen to energize a commercial-scale microgrid, testing the use of hydrogen in different settings and applications including in household appliances.

The development project will evaluate the potential for renewable hydrogen to be generated, stored and used at a larger scale. ATCO aims to assess the practicalities of replacing natural gas with hydrogen at a city-wide scale across a municipality.

Green hydrogen will be produced from on-site solar using electrolysis, a range of gas appliances and blending hydrogen into the natural gas pipeline.

The project will also build upon ATCO’s distributed energy hybrid energy system trial called GasSola which includes the installation of rooftop solar with battery storage and standby natural gas generation for nine residential sites in Western Australia’s south west. . . .


Also GCC:
Ballard acquiring fuel cell assets from Daimler/Ford AFCC
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/07/20180704-ballard.html

. . . As part of a planned wind-down of AFCC’s operations in Vancouver, which are co-located with Ballard at its headquarters, Daimler and Ford have in-housed and relocated their fuel cell stack development activities to Germany and the US, respectively. As a result, Daimler and Ford have agreed to sell AFCC assets to Ballard. . . .

The array of testing, production and lab assets acquired—with a footprint of approximately 11,000 square feet of floor space—includes:

    Testing Equipment – Test stands, Core Automotive Test (CAT) equipment as well as other stations and equipment used in the testing of materials, fuel cell stacks and power modules;

    Prototype Production Equipment – Key prototype production equipment used in the manufacture of membrane electrode assemblies (MEAs), a core technology component used in fuel cell stacks; and

    Lab and Quality Inspection Equipment – A broad range of measurement, testing and inspection equipment underpinning the analysis and understanding of critical fuel cell and MEA materials.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 8647
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:21 pm

Via GCC:
thyssenkrupp supports Australian company H2U in green hydrogen and renewable ammonia value chain development
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/07/20180710-thyssenkrupp.html

thyssenkrupp was recently awarded a contract to perform a feasibility study for a new green hydrogen project by the Australian hydrogen infrastructure company Hydrogen Utility (H2U). A 30MW water electrolysis plant as well as a facility for sustainable ammonia production are planned to be constructed near Port Lincoln in South Australia. It will be one of the first commercial plants to produce CO2-free “green” ammonia from intermittent renewable resources. . . .

    . . . The new facility will provide balancing services to the national transmission grid, fast frequency response support to new solar plants under development, supply green ammonia and other chemicals to the local farming and aquaculture sectors. It will host the demonstration of novel supply chain technologies for the export of green hydrogen to markets in the Asia-Pacific region.

    —Dr. Attilio Pigneri, CEO of H2U

The planned facility will integrate different hydrogen technologies, including a multimegawatt electrolyzer plant and an ammonia production facility with a capacity of 50 tons per day . . . A 10MW hydrogen-fired gas turbine and 5MW hydrogen fuel cell will supply power to the grid.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Return to “Business / Economy and Politics”