GRA
Posts: 10299
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:43 pm

Seems to be the month for H2 plants to have major problems. IEVS:
Hydrogen Fueling Station Explodes: Toyota & Hyundai Halt Fuel Cell Car Sales
https://insideevs.com/news/354223/hydrogen-fueling-station-explodes/

A hydrogen refueling station exploded and stood in flames yesterday in Sandvika, Norway, which could make June 10, 2019 the day when the perception about hydrogen stations and hydrogen fuel cell cars, in general, will forever change.

According to reports from the Uno-X station, the explosion was huge. It triggered airbags in nearby cars and caused the necessity to close off the busy E18 and E16 intersection. A safety zone of 500 meters was recommended by the fire service.

The good news is that there are no reports about direct injuries, but some reports say two people were sent to the emergency room because of injuries sustained from airbags in their cars. . . .

The author's comments seem more than a little hyperbolic. After all, it's not as if oil refineries never explode*, which is why they and any hazardous substance plant are located with large safety areas around them for that reason. Did anyone think they were completely safe? I mean, two whole people were injured in this case by air bag deployment - Oh, the horror!
*Texas City Refinery explosion

The Texas City Refinery explosion occurred on March 23, 2005, when a hydrocarbon vapor cloud was ignited and violently exploded at the ISOM isomerization process unit at BP's Texas City refinery in Texas City, Texas, killing 15 workers, injuring 180 others and severely damaging the refinery.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_City_Refinery_explosion

Maybe there are people so clueless that they think that H2 is completely safe rather than being a hazmat, just as gasoline is. The sales stoppage is temporary; if there's no fuel, who's going to buy the cars?
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 640
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:17 pm

GRA wrote:Seems to be the month for H2 plants to have major problems. IEVS:
Hydrogen Fueling Station Explodes: Toyota & Hyundai Halt Fuel Cell Car Sales
https://insideevs.com/news/354223/hydrogen-fueling-station-explodes/

A hydrogen refueling station exploded and stood in flames yesterday in Sandvika, Norway, which could make June 10, 2019 the day when the perception about hydrogen stations and hydrogen fuel cell cars, in general, will forever change.

According to reports from the Uno-X station, the explosion was huge. It triggered airbags in nearby cars and caused the necessity to close off the busy E18 and E16 intersection. A safety zone of 500 meters was recommended by the fire service.

The good news is that there are no reports about direct injuries, but some reports say two people were sent to the emergency room because of injuries sustained from airbags in their cars. . . .

The author's comments seem more than a little hyperbolic. After all, it's not as if oil refineries never explode*, which is why they and any hazardous substance plant are located with large safety areas around them for that reason. Did anyone think they were completely safe? I mean, two whole people were injured in this case by air bag deployment - Oh, the horror!
*Texas City Refinery explosion

The Texas City Refinery explosion occurred on March 23, 2005, when a hydrocarbon vapor cloud was ignited and violently exploded at the ISOM isomerization process unit at BP's Texas City refinery in Texas City, Texas, killing 15 workers, injuring 180 others and severely damaging the refinery.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_City_Refinery_explosion

Maybe there are people so clueless that they think that H2 is completely safe rather than being a hazmat, just as gasoline is. The sales stoppage is temporary; if there's no fuel, who's going to buy the cars?


The H2 being a flammable product isn't the issue. It's the method of storing it under extreme pressure that's the problem. Those airbags weren't deployed because the H2 burned, they deployed because of the pressure wave that formed when the gas escaped at hypersonic velocity!

The Texas refinery explosion is of a completely different nature (involving aerated fuel - something that's normally heavier than air and so won't float away).

Check out videos of the burning hindenburg. It didn't explode despite all the H2 being contained in the Zeppelin, because everything was at standard air pressure (14psi).

H2 is relatively safe ... at low pressure. Hopefully Toyota and Honda sees the writing on the wall and stop their infatuation with pressurized H2.
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
100% Zero transportation emissions (except when I walk) and loving it!

SageBrush
Posts: 4028
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:53 pm

^^ well said.

Google says that an H2 station costs $1.2 - 1.5 USD Million to build. That price is going to jump to try and reduce the frequency of future explosions. This reminds me of nuclear -- the cost of safety overwhelms the industry.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

GRA
Posts: 10299
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:01 pm

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
GRA wrote:Seems to be the month for H2 plants to have major problems. IEVS:
Hydrogen Fueling Station Explodes: Toyota & Hyundai Halt Fuel Cell Car Sales
https://insideevs.com/news/354223/hydrogen-fueling-station-explodes/

A hydrogen refueling station exploded and stood in flames yesterday in Sandvika, Norway, which could make June 10, 2019 the day when the perception about hydrogen stations and hydrogen fuel cell cars, in general, will forever change.

According to reports from the Uno-X station, the explosion was huge. It triggered airbags in nearby cars and caused the necessity to close off the busy E18 and E16 intersection. A safety zone of 500 meters was recommended by the fire service.

The good news is that there are no reports about direct injuries, but some reports say two people were sent to the emergency room because of injuries sustained from airbags in their cars. . . .

The author's comments seem more than a little hyperbolic. After all, it's not as if oil refineries never explode*, which is why they and any hazardous substance plant are located with large safety areas around them for that reason. Did anyone think they were completely safe? I mean, two whole people were injured in this case by air bag deployment - Oh, the horror!
*Texas City Refinery explosion

The Texas City Refinery explosion occurred on March 23, 2005, when a hydrocarbon vapor cloud was ignited and violently exploded at the ISOM isomerization process unit at BP's Texas City refinery in Texas City, Texas, killing 15 workers, injuring 180 others and severely damaging the refinery.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_City_Refinery_explosion

Maybe there are people so clueless that they think that H2 is completely safe rather than being a hazmat, just as gasoline is. The sales stoppage is temporary; if there's no fuel, who's going to buy the cars?


The H2 being a flammable product isn't the issue. It's the method of storing it under extreme pressure that's the problem. Those airbags weren't deployed because the H2 burned, they deployed because of the pressure wave that formed when the gas escaped at hypersonic velocity!

The Texas refinery explosion is of a completely different nature (involving aerated fuel - something that's normally heavier than air and so won't float away).

Check out videos of the burning hindenburg. It didn't explode despite all the H2 being contained in the Zeppelin, because everything was at standard air pressure (14psi).

H2 is relatively safe ... at low pressure. Hopefully Toyota and Honda sees the writing on the wall and stop their infatuation with pressurized H2.

See my comments to this point in the other topic.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Return to “Business / Economy and Politics”