Projection: Electric Cars Will Sell Faster than Hybrids

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JPVLeaf

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PRTM's "Conditional Forecast"

In contrast to the J.D. Power projection (100000 EVs sold by 2020), PRTM's Oliver Hazimeh is projecting 1,000,000 sales of EVs (BEV+PHEV) in the US by 2020 (10% of sales). And, HEVs to comprise 20% of U.S. sales by 2020.

http://www.plugincars.com/expert-electric-cars-will-sell-faster-hybrids-101094.html

Link also includes audio for the full interview with Brad Berman at plugincars.com.

As Nick Chambers pointed out, J.D. Power produced its forecast mostly turning a blind eye to critical market factors, such as likely gasoline costs and government support. To get a contrasting view, I spoke this week with Oliver Hazimeh, director of the global e-Mobility practice at PRTM, a global management consulting firm. PRTM took a more holistic approach in its new forecast, pegging U.S. sales of electric cars and plug-in hybrids at 10 percent of the market by 2020. That’s likely to represent more than 1 million sales per year, or 10 times the number predicted by J.D. Power.

The PRTM forecast for grid-connected cars for 2010 is also about four times the size of today's hybrid market—around 2.5 percent of new car sales. The first hybrid was introduced in the U.S. in December 1999. Many industry analysts look at the speed and size of growth for regular hybrids, like the Toyota Prius, as a logical real-world indicator of how EVs might take hold in the coming decade.

“We’re trying to avoid being stuck in history, and think about other factors that need to be considered going forward—climate change, variability on oil price, and thinking about how much money is flowing into the space for battery technology, etc.,” Oliver told me.

After taking these factors into consideration, Oliver sees an unprecedented alignment of support between consumers, car companies and government officials of all political stripes. That all adds up to faster EV and PHEV adoption than we saw for hybrids.

Five Reasons Why

More specifically, Oliver points to these factors:

* Economics of scale on battery production reducing the cost of batteries by 50 percent in just a few years.
* Electric cars benefiting from consumer understanding and adoption of conventional hybrids. “Prius has greased the skids,” Oliver said. “We’re not starting from scratch.”
* Automakers marketing EVs more aggressively than hybrids were marketed. Hybrids were barely advertised in the early years. By contrast, as we’ve already seen, automakers are putting big ad dollars behind their electric cars.
* In addition, the marketing messages will shift to appeal to much wider consumer base. “It goes beyond green,” Oliver said. “These are smart cars. They will be connected cars. They have a high-tech flair to it. So I think they will appeal to a broad audience, more than just about green.”
* There will be greater consumer choice for grid-connected vehicles than there have been for hybrids. The Prius still outsells all other hybrids combined. Expect a wider and more competitive field for EVs.

Bear in mind that PRTM believes that while sales of plug-in cars will rise to 10 percent of the market by 2020, sales of conventional hybrids—ones without a plug—will grow to 20 percent in the next decade. All told, electric-drive vehicles will make up nearly 1 out of 3 sales in 2020, according to PRTM.
 
I'd take a consulting firm seriously only if they had predicted the oil price shock of 2008 and the resulting crash in auto sales numbers. Otherwise they don't even know about peak oil - let alone have the ability to think through how that will affect auto market.
 
evnow said:
I'd take a consulting firm seriously only if they had predicted the oil price shock of 2008 and the resulting crash in auto sales numbers. Otherwise they don't even know about peak oil - let alone have the ability to think through how that will affect auto market.
Are you thinking that PRTM's projections did not consider peak oil, and therefore should be higher than the 1 million by 2020?

I found that PRTM's "conditional forecast" considered more realistic and broader factors compared to the J.D.Power projection. There were a lot of "Ifs" to arrive at the final project numbers. FWIW, I found the audio of the interview very interesting and covered a lot of the input factors. Part of Berman's interview addresses how/where PRTM can temper their projection based by adjusting the input values.
 
* In addition, the marketing messages will shift to appeal to much wider consumer base. “It goes beyond green,” Oliver said. “These are smart cars. They will be connected cars. They have a high-tech flair to it. So I think they will appeal to a broad audience, more than just about green.”
Honestly, the high-tech aspect appeals to me as much, if maybe not even more, than the green aspect. And especially the comparative mechanical simplicity of a pure electric drivetrain. The Volt's mechanical complexity is a big turn-off for me. I'm willing to deal with the occasional instance when the LEAF's range limitation is a problem to get the maintenance benefits which the simple electric drivetrain promises.
 
i think it will be higher than 1 million by 2015. Nissan will provide ¼ of that alone in a few years. do we really think every other manufacturer is going to sit on their butts and watch Nissan service the market alone?

when EV's attain a range of 200 miles on a charge, i think their market share will be at least 25%. that is about 3 million cars and i think the 200 mile range will happen in less than 5 years.
 
I'll throw in my two cents. I've thought about a Prius or Civic hybrid lots of times, but could never justify it. A Prius is like 8-10k more than a run of the mill Corolla, and while it's cool technology, at the end of the day it's still a gas powered car, and it doesn't save nearly enough gas to justify the cost differential, not to mention the likelihood of costly repairs later in the vehicle's life.

The Leaf (or other EVs) represents something totally different to me. I remember the 1974 oil embargo, and have been waiting 36 years for something to come along that provides a true alternative to oil/gas. I'm not so naive as to think EVs are the solution to energy diversification/oil independence, but it could go a long way in my little corner of the world.
 
tps said:
Honestly, the high-tech aspect appeals to me as much, if maybe not ever more, than the green aspect. And especially the comparative mechanical simplicity of a pure electric drivetrain. The Volt's mechanical complexity is a big turn-off for me. I'm willing to deal with the occasional instance when the LEAF's range limitation is a problem to get the maintenance benefits which the simple electric drivetrain promises.

+1 to that! An electric car just Makes Sense from a mechanical perspective. Even my hobby model cars have all switched from Nitro to electric. Less mess, less hassle, less noise, less stink, and less repair/maint work.

A hybrid gets improve mpg (in some cases), at the cost of increased complexity. A hybrid has to justify itself based on gas savings. (Or CO2 savings, if you lean that way)

An electric car, now that has geek appeal.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
i think it will be higher than 1 million by 2015. Nissan will provide ¼ of that alone in a few years. do we really think every other manufacturer is going to sit on their butts and watch Nissan service the market alone?

when EV's attain a range of 200 miles on a charge, i think their market share will be at least 25%. that is about 3 million cars and i think the 200 mile range will happen in less than 5 years.

+1 :D
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
when EV's attain a range of 200 miles on a charge, i think their market share will be at least 25%. that is about 3 million cars and i think the 200 mile range will happen in less than 5 years.
Are you predicting automotive EV batteries will have double the energy and/or power density in 5 years (for same price )?
 
Those of us used to digital technology (CPUs, internet bandwidth, WiFi, digital cameras, etc) have come to expect significant year-over-year gains that quickly make the next-gen superior to the previous gen.

I'm less convinced that Lithium batteries are going to enjoy such a curve. Cost, yes.. if we can get the raw material supply chain under control, and scale up to huge factories (like Nissan is doing), then I could imagine the cells getting significantly cheaper yet. They have already taken a really steep drop in the past five years, so there is precedent.

But I'm less convinced we will get twice the range in the same volume or density. Price is one thing, physics and chemistry is another. The gains here will be harder to earn. Solar panels are eeking out small gains in efficiency each year as well, but not doubling.

Unless some breakthrough chemistry comes to light, I'm not expecting packs to look much different in three years' time. Maybe 10-20% more range for the same weight/volume?
 
GroundLoop said:
Unless some breakthrough chemistry comes to light, I'm not expecting packs to look much different in three years' time. Maybe 10-20% more range for the same weight/volume?
Agreed. This is also the same range that I recall. Double in five yrs seemed a bit optimistic, particularly for a mass produced EV.
 
The real boost to EVs will come if the electric is provided free and is readily available at places of employment etc.
Will be a nice perk of employment for many and this will really make a difference unless the IRS rules the bene is taxable compensation.
 
smkettner said:
I can see the cost coming down but not a huge increase in capacity per pound of material.

But if you recall, Nissan said they will have a double the mileage battery in about three years or so.
 
LEAFfan said:
smkettner said:
I can see the cost coming down but not a huge increase in capacity per pound of material.
But if you recall, Nissan said they will have a double the mileage battery in about three years or so.
For the same size battery (wt and/or vol), and for the same cost (i.e., $/kwh)?
Are you saying double the energy and/or power density as compared to the Leaf, ver. 1.0?
Do you have a reference?
 
If the cost of the battery packet comes down via mass production, so that a car like the Leaf (without tax credits) is priced close to a comparably equipped Hybrid, then the operating cost saving of the EV are compelling. If that happens, forget about green, forget about peak oil, forget about high tech, it will be a big seller just on pure economics. I think that's what Nissan is banking on. I would expect them to focus on reducing the cost of a pack with the existing capacity for the leaf, not trying to increase the capacity. Bigger packs will be for bigger cars/trucks.

I think they have shot at that. Reducing cost AND increasing capacity, not so much. Moore's law wasn't based on a major new technology every 18 months, it was based on continuing refinement of the technology and per unit cost savings from very large volumes of sales.
 
Its already predicted battery costs will be reduced 50% just from the savings on mass production. That leaves only a little technological improvement to get the proverbial 2 for 1 improvement.

But I think standardizarion will reduce costs as well.I am looking at a cost per kwh being around 30-35% of todays price in 5 yeRs
 
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