GRA
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Re: Volkswagon Group Games Pollution Testing, Gets Caught

Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:54 pm

KillaWhat wrote:<snip>
Did they fail to meet the CARB standard, or did the just "cheat to get a better grade".

If you're asking about what VW did,

The agencies charged that the electronic control module (ECM) in the vehicles in question—roughly 482,000 diesel passenger cars—sold in the US since 2008—contains software that detects when the car is undergoing official emissions testing. Based on that ability, during EPA emission testing, the tainted ECM ran software which produced compliant emissions results under an unique ECM calibration. At all other times during normal vehicle operation, the vehicle ECM software ran a separate road calibration which reduced the effectiveness of the emission control system (specifically the selective catalytic reduction or the lean NOx trap).

As result, emissions of NOx increased by a factor of 10 to 40 times above the EPA compliant levels,
depending on the the of drive cycle, the agencies charged.


BTW, your Passats wouldn't be affected (only 2014-2015 MYs), just the A3 (2009-2015 MYs).

VW attempting damage control, via GCC: http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015/09 ... -vwag.html

On Sunday, Volkswagen Group CEO Prof. Dr. Martin Winterkorn said that Volkswagen does “not and will not tolerate violations of any kind of our internal rules or of the law”, and said that the company “will cooperate fully with the responsible agencies, with transparency and urgency, to clearly, openly, and completely establish all of the facts of this case.” Volkswagen has ordered an external investigation as well.

The Board of Management at Volkswagen AG takes these findings very seriously. I personally am deeply sorry that we have broken the trust of our customers and the public.

The trust of our customers and the public is and continues to be our most important asset. We at Volkswagen will do everything that must be done in order to re-establish the trust that so many people have placed in us, and we will do everything necessary in order to reverse the damage this has caused. This matter has first priority for me, personally, and for our entire Board of Management.

—Prof. Dr. Martin Winterkorn

The pounding will continue for months, just one more thing to distract Congress from more important business.
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Re: Volkswagon Group Games Pollution Testing, Gets Caught

Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:52 am

RegGuheert
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LKK
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Re: Volkswagon Group Games Pollution Testing, Gets Caught

Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:25 am

If you've haven't already read it, here's a piece from Green Car Reports with a pretty detailed review of this incident.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/110 ... -questions

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walterbays
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Re: Volkswagon Group Games Pollution Testing, Gets Caught

Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:32 am

Anyone who has ever driven behind a diesel - cough, cough - can tell you there is no such thing as a clean diesel. This should put an end to diesels in passenger cars for good.

keydiver wrote:My friend knows that any fix for his Jetta is going to effect gas mileage and performance, so he says he will refuse to take it in for the modifications. I'm supposing that will be the reaction of most owners, so how do you force them to fix their gross polluter?


California should quickly change smog check rules to require that all diesels get annual tests. If you don't get the software update you don't pass the test. If you don't pass the test, or fail to get the test, you don't get a license plate renewal. If you drive your car without a license plate you lose your drivers license. If you drive without a license you go to jail.

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/?1dmy&urile=wcm:path:/dmv_content_en/dmv/vr/smogfaq#BM2535

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Re: Volkswagon Group Games Pollution Testing, Gets Caught

Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:56 pm

One has to wonder, what were they thinking?
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Re: Volkswagon Group Games Pollution Testing, Gets Caught

Mon Sep 21, 2015 12:59 pm

Much of the stink from American diesels was from the extra sulphur in the fuel. It was left there for decades because the oil industry didn't want to spend an extra penny a gallon to remove it. Now that it's gone, diesel cars at least smell less bad, but I'd still prefer to be behind a Prius or leaf in traffic.
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Re: Volkswagon Group Games Pollution Testing, Gets Caught

Mon Sep 21, 2015 2:01 pm

Given that the fix to the emission controls will probably greatly reduce torque and MPG, and resale value; given that will almost surely result in a class action lawsuit against VW; given that the EPA can fine them $37,500 per car sold fraudulently; I wonder if another action than a recall might make sense.

Replace every diesel VW and Audi with something like a new VW Jetta Hybrid, $31k, 42/48 MPG, or VW e-Golf EV, $34k. Society would be ahead with 500,000 rolling smog factories replaced with low emission vehicles. Drivers would be better off with new cars giving similar performance. VW would be better off than with a class action suit plus EPA fines, though worse off than if they had never cheated.

PS - wouldn't all those diesels going into the car crushers make a nice counterpoint to the fate of the EV-1?

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Re: Volkswagon Group Games Pollution Testing, Gets Caught

Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:40 pm

Surprised that it took so long to show up - the inevitable "Downfall" parody, in this case more appropriate than most given the Bug's development history as well as Ferdinand Porsche's later tank design work:
Hitler Reacts To The VW-EPA Scandal Dieselgate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKef1JF ... e=youtu.be
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

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Re: Volkswagon Group Games Pollution Testing, Gets Caught

Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:58 pm

So what happens to owners of these diesel? If the reports are correct these cars are not compliant with EPA or CARB requirements and thus cannot be registered or sold. In fact, I'm not sure they can be legally driven anywhere advocates moment. These folks acted in good faith, shouldn't VW a) make these cars compliant, if the fix is too expensive, b) buy the cars back at whatever they were worth before this came to light, and crush them. C) Provide alternative transportation to owners if these cars are ordered off the roads.

You could argue over any fines VW should be assessed but as a minimum, owners of these cars should not be forced to suffer financially for something they had no part in.

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Re: Volkswagon Group Games Pollution Testing, Gets Caught

Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:37 pm

sparky wrote:So if your the EPA or CARB, and you actually have VW's nuts in a vise, what do you do next?
The value of the fine could be as much as $18B.
I'll start.
Perhaps:
Tell them they can sell only EVs in the U.S. until:
1) VW invests $5B in a U.S. battery gigafactory to produce packs for at least 100,000 cars /yr.
2) Starting in 2018, VW builds/sells a minimum of 50,000 200mi EVs at cost.
3) VW installs/maintains a supercharger network allowing coast to coast travel.
4) VW sells 482,000 200mi+ BEVs in the U.S.

Maybe they'll learn to kick the diesel habit and all the "clean diesel" b.s. that goes with it.
p.s. I know, I know. The govt is picking winners (EVs) and losers (diesel) here. But EVs are a clear winner, except on cost and infrastructure, over diesel.

Other ways to re-direct anger?


Nice. The punishment should fit the crime. The EVW.
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