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dgpcolorado
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Re: Auto Maker Games Pollution Testing, Gets Caught

Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:04 pm

Valdemar wrote:
LKK wrote:I have difficulty in believing any manufacturer would act in such an outrageous manner. If these allegations are proven to be true I really think VW should be prohibited from selling any more cars.


Really? What do you think of GM then? Their cars killed people.
An interesting question that also occurred to me. My take is that the difference is that VW did this deliberately to game the pollution requirements while GM did not intend for the ignition switch to fail as it did. GM's problem was that they were slow to respond to the problem when it was discovered, and tried to avoid doing anything about it for awhile, something I would attribute to the company being a slow-moving, many-layered, bureaucracy. GM didn't set out to build cars that would kill people. VW did set out to build cars that would pollute, to gain performance and sales.

Whether the increased NOx pollution can be connected to health issues of those living in polluted cities is hard to determine. But it is by no means harmless.
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JimSouCal
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Re: Volkswagon Group Games Pollution Testing, Gets Caught

Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:04 pm

Valdemar wrote:One has to wonder, what were they thinking?
+1 Surely this was going to show up sometime given the incredible results the noncompliant cars were giving... A competitor pointing noting this and investigating comes to mind... It's getting ugly...

On another note, they make a nice EV...

cwerdna
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Re: Volkswagon Group Games Pollution Testing, Gets Caught

Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:04 pm

KillaWhat wrote:Did they fail to meet the CARB standard, or did the just "cheat to get a better grade".

http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52425 has an overview including a copy of the letter from CARB to VW.

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dgpcolorado
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Re: Volkswagon Group Games Pollution Testing, Gets Caught

Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:17 pm

walterbays wrote:Anyone who has ever driven behind a diesel - cough, cough - can tell you there is no such thing as a clean diesel. This should put an end to diesels in passenger cars for good...
Image Image Yes! As a bicycle commuter I HATE diesels. Around here trucks are one of the most common light duty vehicles and nearly all of them are diesels. Even the VW passenger car diesels stink and emit soot. "Clean" diesel is an oxymoron. As VW has shown.

The eventual fine will be a wrist-slap like GM and Toyota got. But the cost in dealing with lawsuits, recalls, and the loss in company reputation might be enough to get other car companies to think twice before engaging in cheating and fraud. Or maybe I'm being naive...
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mbender
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Re: Volkswagon Group Games Pollution Testing, Gets Caught

Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:07 pm

sparky wrote:So if your the EPA or CARB, and you actually have VW's nuts in a vise, what do you do next?
The value of the fine could be as much as $18B.
I'll start.
Perhaps:
Tell them they can sell only EVs in the U.S. until:
1) VW invests $5B in a U.S. battery gigafactory to produce packs for at least 100,000 cars /yr.
2) Starting in 2018, VW builds/sells a minimum of 50,000 200mi EVs at cost.
3) VW installs/maintains a supercharger network allowing coast to coast travel.
4) VW sells 482,000 200mi+ BEVs in the U.S.

Maybe they'll learn to kick the diesel habit and all the "clean diesel" b.s. that goes with it.
p.s. I know, I know. The govt is picking winners (EVs) and losers (diesel) here. But EVs are a clear winner, except on cost and infrastructure, over diesel.

Other ways to re-direct anger?

I think they'd gladly agree to stop selling any cars in the U.S. if the penalties and 'ultimatums' were/are so draconian. Unless I read or remember incorrectly, they only sell about 5% of their vehicles here. I think I read that on the "TDIClub" forum, btw, where they already have 140 pages on the issue.
I think I just felt my paradigm shift.

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DeeAgeaux
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Re: Volkswagon Group Games Pollution Testing, Gets Caught

Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:52 am

mbender wrote:I think they'd gladly agree to stop selling any cars in the U.S. if the penalties and 'ultimatums' were/are so draconian. Unless I read or remember incorrectly, they only sell about 5% of their vehicles here. I think I read that on the "TDIClub" forum, btw, where they already have 140 pages on the issue.


The fines are not optional.

Not only do they have real property in the US like the massive Tenn factory but other real property as well.

And they can't just go hide in Europe.

VW brand is not a big seller in the USA. But VW Group is also Audi, Porsche,Lamborghini, Bentley, and Bugatti. That is a lot of revenue. Plus their North American strategy's bedrock is the US market. VW Group has a VW and a separate Audi factory in Mexico.

Even if they did try to hide in Europe the US government would go after their assets all over the world.
I

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evnow
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Re: Volkswagon Group Games Pollution Testing, Gets Caught

Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:52 am

Like the NRG deal, EPA should ask VW to build a nationwide network of QC. One per 100 sq miles.
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Re: Volkswagon Group Games Pollution Testing, Gets Caught

Tue Sep 22, 2015 5:55 am

evnow wrote:Like the NRG deal, EPA should ask VW to build a nationwide network of QC. One per 100 sq miles.


I like that, and need to be SAE and Chademo.
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drees
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Re: Volkswagon Group Games Pollution Testing, Gets Caught

Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:02 am

It just got a lot worse. It now appears to affect every VAG 2.0l diesel sold worldwide as others have suggested it might.

11 million vehicles.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/23/busin ... andal.html
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RegGuheert
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Re: Volkswagon Group Games Pollution Testing, Gets Caught

Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:37 am

drees wrote:It just got a lot worse. It now appears to affect every VAG 2.0l diesel sold worldwide as others have suggested it might.

11 million vehicles.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/23/busin ... andal.html
...and another 20% drop in share price...
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