GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: CA. retail H2 fuel stations

Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:12 pm

CARB's "2017 Annual Evaluation of Fuel Cell Electric Vehicle Deployment and Hydrogen Fuel Station Network Development" is now out: https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/zevprog/ab8/ab8_report_2017.pdf
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: CA. retail H2 fuel stations

Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:59 pm

Fremont is open, #31 (#10 in NorCal).
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 8859
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: CA. retail H2 fuel stations

Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:26 pm

Via GCC:
Five additional hydrogen stations proposed for California
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/11/20171110-calh2.html

The California Energy Commission has issued a “Revised Notice of Proposed Awards” that recommends five additional hydrogen fueling stations previously recommended for funding by Energy Commission staff. The newly awarded stations are:

Beverly Hills (FirstElement Fuel)
Studio City (FirstElement Fuel)
San Jose (Shell)
Redwood City (FirstElement Fuel)
Mission Hills (FirstElement Fuel)

The Energy Commission’s commissioners must approve the awards at an upcoming meeting before they are considered “awarded.” With this addition, California has a total of 66 retail hydrogen stations open, in development, and proposed.

Unfortunately, they didn't expand the network to allow travel to any new areas, as these just add local urban capacity. They need to do both to emphasize an FCEV's operational advantages over BEVs for renters and road trips.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 8859
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: CA. retail H2 fuel stations

Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:46 pm

A quick summary of 2017: Only 6 full-retail stations opened, making 31 + 3 non-retail, for 34 total. This compares to 25 + 6 for 31 total last January, so progress has been well behind schedule. CEC has awarded 20 grants for new sites that may start to complete this year, and definitely will start to arrive in 2019, but they really need to get the ones that have been hanging around in "commissioning" or "construction" status since last year done. In "commissioning" are Ontario and Woodside; Cal State LA has been in commissioning status forever, and clearly should be removed from the list as nothing is happening with it. In "construction" status are Mountain View and LAX.

As noted upthread, the new stations which have received grants are all in/around urban areas except for one more on I-5 in the San Joaquin Valley (Santa Nella), so they really need to provide more stations to expand the places people can go, in addition to all these stations for routine driving.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

SageBrush
Posts: 2591
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Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: CA. retail H2 fuel stations

Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:15 pm

The ARB report reads like an advert.

I was surprised to read that H2 still costs $10 a Kg despite the majority being sourced from NG. For the Mirai that works out to ~ 16 cents a mile ... for a car that costs $57k to the consumer ... that is thought to cost Toyota $100k in losses on every car.

They have a LONG way to go, California funded H2 fueling stations or not.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

GRA
Posts: 8859
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: CA. retail H2 fuel stations

Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:26 pm

SageBrush wrote:The ARB report reads like an advert.

I was surprised to read that H2 still costs $10 a Kg despite the majority being sourced from NG. For the Mirai that works out to ~ 16 cents a mile ... for a car that costs $57k to the consumer ... that is thought to cost Toyota $100k in losses on every car.

They have a LONG way to go, California funded H2 fueling stations or not.

There is certainly a way to go, and no one has ever said otherwise. OTOH, tossing around figures like $100k loss per Mirai for Toyota is based on what evidence - only Toyota knows how much each Mirai costs them, and they're not saying. As Toyota, along with Honda and Hyundai are still eating ca. $15k in fuel costs per FCEV, the cost to the consumer per mile remains zero up to that limit.

Also see:
DOE analysis suggests rapid convergence of FCEV and BEV TCOs; FCEVs less expensive for majority of LDV fleet by 2040; mass compounding
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/01/20180114-doe.html
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

SageBrush
Posts: 2591
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: CA. retail H2 fuel stations

Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:41 pm

I'm not going to spend $35 to read the article -- nice entertainment notwithstanding.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

WetEV
Posts: 2186
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: CA. retail H2 fuel stations

Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:12 am

GRA wrote:As Toyota, along with Honda and Hyundai are still eating ca. $15k in fuel costs per FCEV


At $150 per kWh, the expected battery cell cost in 2025, that would be the same as adding 100kWh.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

GRA
Posts: 8859
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: CA. retail H2 fuel stations

Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:26 pm

WetEV wrote:
GRA wrote:As Toyota, along with Honda and Hyundai are still eating ca. $15k in fuel costs per FCEV


At $150 per kWh, the expected battery cell cost in 2025, that would be the same as adding 100kWh.

Uh huh, and at $4/kg., DoE's target price for H2, it will be more than competitive with gas. Who knows when either tech will actually get there.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 8859
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: CA. retail H2 fuel stations

Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:28 pm

SageBrush wrote:I'm not going to spend $35 to read the article -- nice entertainment notwithstanding.

Me either. I've tried to find it where it's not behind a paywall, but no luck.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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