craig
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Re: Let The Dismantling Begin: Climate-Change Denier Scott Pruitt Trump’s Pick For New EPA Chief

Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:06 pm

Ah, well... time will tell.
What I cannot do is change anything that will happen.
What I will not do is worry about something I cannot change.
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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: Let The Dismantling Begin: Climate-Change Denier Scott Pruitt Trump’s Pick For New EPA Chief

Sun Dec 11, 2016 9:29 pm

craig wrote:Ah, well... time will tell.
What I cannot do is change anything that will happen.
What I will not do is worry about something I cannot change.

This.
Elections have consequences, which can include reactions in subsequent elections. That's how we got here, not the Russians, not the electoral college, not fake news, not the FBI, not a dozen other excuses the DNC is grasping at.
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Stoaty
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Re: Let The Dismantling Begin: Climate-Change Denier Scott Pruitt Trump’s Pick For New EPA Chief

Sun Dec 11, 2016 10:00 pm

LTLFTcomposite wrote:Elections have consequences, which can include reactions in subsequent elections. That's how we got here, not the Russians, not the electoral college, not fake news, not the FBI, not a dozen other excuses the DNC is grasping at.

Actually, the FBI meddling in the election at the last minute and Russian hacking were probably significant factors that affected the election. To claim otherwise is to ignore the facts. Whether they affected it to the extent they tipped the election to Trump, we will never know. Also, we definitely got here because of the electoral college, since Clinton won the popular vote by over 2 million votes.
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Re: Let The Dismantling Begin: Climate-Change Denier Scott Pruitt Trump’s Pick For New EPA Chief

Sun Dec 11, 2016 10:18 pm

I just heard that Walter White, a high school chemistry teacher from New Mexico, has been selected by Trump to head the DEA:

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv ... story.html
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Re: Let The Dismantling Begin: Climate-Change Denier Scott Pruitt Trump’s Pick For New EPA Chief

Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:11 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Trump is worth billions today; the bankruptcies were yesterday. The man knows business, and "the business of America is business".


Trump has gone from enormous business ventures that failed (but that still paid him well, at the expense of the investors) to making large amounts of money simply by selling his name. I'm not sure how this approach is going to translate to improving the lives of most Americans.
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Re: Let The Dismantling Begin: Climate-Change Denier Scott Pruitt Trump’s Pick For New EPA Chief

Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:13 am

Stoaty wrote:
LTLFTcomposite wrote:Elections have consequences, which can include reactions in subsequent elections. That's how we got here, not the Russians, not the electoral college, not fake news, not the FBI, not a dozen other excuses the DNC is grasping at.

Actually, the FBI meddling in the election at the last minute and Russian hacking were probably significant factors that affected the election. To claim otherwise is to ignore the facts. Whether they affected it to the extent they tipped the election to Trump, we will never know. Also, we definitely got here because of the electoral college, since Clinton won the popular vote by over 2 million votes.
Exactly so. Quite the mandate to govern.
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Re: Let The Dismantling Begin: Climate-Change Denier Scott Pruitt Trump’s Pick For New EPA Chief

Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:50 am

SageBrush wrote:
Stoaty wrote:
LTLFTcomposite wrote:Elections have consequences, which can include reactions in subsequent elections. That's how we got here, not the Russians, not the electoral college, not fake news, not the FBI, not a dozen other excuses the DNC is grasping at.

Actually, the FBI meddling in the election at the last minute and Russian hacking were probably significant factors that affected the election. To claim otherwise is to ignore the facts. Whether they affected it to the extent they tipped the election to Trump, we will never know. Also, we definitely got here because of the electoral college, since Clinton won the popular vote by over 2 million votes.
Exactly so. Quite the mandate to govern.

Can we please stop with the popular vote babbling. You guys can't be so anti-science as to understand that the behavior of both candidates and the electorate would be different if the rules were different. There's a reason pass plays to the sidelines are called more frequently in a two minute drill.
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Re: Let The Dismantling Begin: Climate-Change Denier Scott Pruitt Trump’s Pick For New EPA Chief

Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:51 am

LTL
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Re: Let The Dismantling Begin: Climate-Change Denier Scott Pruitt Trump’s Pick For New EPA Chief

Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:19 am

LTLFTcomposite wrote:You guys can't be so anti-science as to understand that the behavior of both candidates and the electorate would be different if the rules were different.


Exactly. And that would be a good thing. Less than 23% of popular vote could elect a President. Even less with third party candidates.

[edit: I went and checked. I put in 27% based on the largest states. But the smaller states have more impact, so 23%.]
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Re: Let The Dismantling Begin: Climate-Change Denier Scott Pruitt Trump’s Pick For New EPA Chief

Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:53 am

LTLFTcomposite wrote:Can we please stop with the popular vote babbling. You guys can't be so anti-science as to understand that the behavior of both candidates and the electorate would be different if the rules were different.

Sure, behavior would be different, and we can't know what would have happened. But what did happen is the best available basis for estimating what would have happened. 2.8 million votes is a big margin to overcome with a different strategy. Maybe Trump could have done it. Either way, we as a country would be better off, as our president would per force have a popular mandate.

Instead, we have the least legitimate, least democratic, least mandated president ever in the modern era. Second only to George W Bush in 2000.

It is a further stain against the electoral college that of the last 5 elections, 2 have gone against the popular vote, and both for the same party. The effect has clearly been biased. If Clinton had won the electoral college and lost the popular vote, then I would be inclined to say, "well, now the two parties are even on that score." But even so, I would still think that the country would be better off if it elected the president by popular vote.

Cheers, Wayne

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