Interleaf
Posts: 65
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:30 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 5000
Location: Northern CA

Re: Is CARB eliminating the category of MSEV (minimal rex serial EV)?

Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:35 am

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:Regulations don't _dictate_ consumer behavior. A MSEV doesn't prevent a consumer from just filling up their Rex and essentially drive on gas. Just like how volt owners can run on 95% electric or 0% (early fleet volt users), the same can happen with MSEV. CARB is right to NOT classify them as BEV. Zero-emissions should mean "0", not "close enough".

But this is patently wrong. It is wrong to assign 100% credit to a BEV and 0% to an MSEV that generates only 5% of the exhaust of an ICE. "Zero Emission" has not been mentioned in the Bible, so it is not a sacred thing. MSEV should receive at least 95% of the credit or even more for beating the path to BEVs. There is no way to run on gas with an MSEV all day. It does not have enough power that you could cruise on the highway or keep yourself warm on a cold day. The best use of an MSEV is to find a charge station when the MSEV runs out of electrical charge.
SL-QC, #5000+ blue - Delivery June 20, 2011 the day after the Calif. $5000 rebate ran out to $2500. Coincidence? Nah, dealer ***** Nissan is front-running.

LeftieBiker
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Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Is CARB eliminating the category of MSEV (minimal rex serial EV)?

Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:40 am

PHEVs already get partial credit, so you not only don't have an argument, you don't understand the reality of the situation.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

Interleaf
Posts: 65
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:30 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 5000
Location: Northern CA

Re: Is CARB eliminating the category of MSEV (minimal rex serial EV)?

Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:46 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:PHEVs already get partial credit, so you not only don't have an argument, you don't understand the reality of the situation.

The argument has moved well beyond what you say. Why don't you follow the debate? Some leftie folks are saying that if you are not a BEV (0% emissions), then you should get very little credit. What is the amount of "partial credit" for a PHEV? 30%? Is it fair or is too low for a SEV/MSEV?
I contend that an MSEV (which is not a PHEV, BTW) should receive 95% credit not 30% credit. Because it produces only 5% of the emissions of an ICE. But some others are saying that we have to penalize SMEV for producing 5% and not 0%. A puritanical approach. Why? Because it does not fit the politically correct language "zero emissions". So in order to arrive at the "zero emission " nirvana, they are willing to sacrifice MSEV (with only 5% emissions) which is not only more sensible and rational, but also paves the way to early EV adoption.
SL-QC, #5000+ blue - Delivery June 20, 2011 the day after the Calif. $5000 rebate ran out to $2500. Coincidence? Nah, dealer ***** Nissan is front-running.

rmay635703
Posts: 398
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:43 pm

Re: Is CARB eliminating the category of MSEV (minimal rex serial EV)?

Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:43 pm

Interleaf wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:PHEVs already get partial credit, so you not only don't have an argument, you don't understand the reality of the situation.

The argument has moved well beyond what you say. Why don't you follow the debate? Some leftie folks are saying that if you are not a BEV (0% emissions), then you should get very little credit. What is the amount of "partial credit" for a PHEV? 30%? Is it fair or is too low for a SEV/MSEV?
I contend that an MSEV (which is not a PHEV, BTW) should receive 95% credit not 30% credit. Because it produces only 5% of the emissions of an ICE. But some others are saying that we have to penalize SMEV for producing 5% and not 0%. A puritanical approach. Why? Because it does not fit the politically correct language "zero emissions". So in order to arrive at the "zero emission " nirvana, they are willing to sacrifice MSEV (with only 5% emissions) which is not only more sensible and rational, but also paves the way to early EV adoption.


The EV range is the best predictor of how much gas is used, most PEOPLE who buy a new phev do so to run electrically, business not as much.

Just because people's behavior sometimes doesn't make sense doesn't mean there should be no benefit for an EV capable car, my belief is registration and gas tax benefits should accompany EV range not a "one time tax rebate "

Heck around here the one leaf owners other car is a large 1ton gas pickup that is driven daily, he likely uses more gas than my comutacar and Volt do but by the logic here he should get more benefit because he owns a pure EV, even though he likely makes exponentially more pollution than I do.

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Gold Member
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Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Is CARB eliminating the category of MSEV (minimal rex serial EV)?

Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:02 am

Interleaf wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:PHEVs already get partial credit, so you not only don't have an argument, you don't understand the reality of the situation.

The argument has moved well beyond what you say. Why don't you follow the debate? Some leftie folks are saying that if you are not a BEV (0% emissions), then you should get very little credit. What is the amount of "partial credit" for a PHEV? 30%? Is it fair or is too low for a SEV/MSEV?
I contend that an MSEV (which is not a PHEV, BTW) should receive 95% credit not 30% credit. Because it produces only 5% of the emissions of an ICE. But some others are saying that we have to penalize SMEV for producing 5% and not 0%. A puritanical approach. Why? Because it does not fit the politically correct language "zero emissions". So in order to arrive at the "zero emission " nirvana, they are willing to sacrifice MSEV (with only 5% emissions) which is not only more sensible and rational, but also paves the way to early EV adoption.


Stop moving the goal-post. A MSEV gets emissions credit. Period. That's the usage argument. Whether or not CARB should've permitted PHEV credits to count against ZEV credits is the argument you should be having and have a good case for.

But instead, you're arguing classification. An MSEV isn't a ZEV, A ZEV vehicle guarantees ZERO tailpipe emissions, not 5%, 2%, or even 0.5%. An MSEVs can not _guarantee_ 100% ZERO emissions. We don't call an okapi a zebra, just because it has 98% of the same characteristics right down to the distinctive stripes.

We don't classify pickup trucks with a crew-cab as a hatchback, even though they'll mostly be used as commuter vehicles and can seat 5 comfortable with a useful "trunk". It has nothing to do with what the "leftie folks" are saying.
[2013 leaf traded for 2016 leaf S30:
1 May 2017 - 7300 miles & 363 GIDs
6 Sep 2017 - 13k miles & 359 GIDs]

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