GetOffYourGas
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Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Rebates Drive Up EV Sales By 74% In New York

Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:30 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
That should be "I-87 NYC to Montreal." The only people who want to stop driving North at Albany are the politicians.



No, it shouldn't. The Thruway banks west at Albany. I-87 north of Albany is the Northway, and it is NOT run by the Thruway Authority. It does not have full-service rest stops. In fact, most of its rest stops north of Lake George have been closed for over a decade.

Now I don't disagree that there should be QCs all the way to the Canadian border. It's just that it isn't under the jurisdiction of the Thruway Authority.


Why are you fixated on the Thruway Authority? They aren't the NYS government, but a quasi-independent business-like entity. New York can put QC stations on the Northway, and they can even reopen a closed rest area to do it! Or just use one of the remaining open ones.


Not fixated at all. It's just that you quoted me, cut off the part where I mentioned the thruway, and then "corrected" me to include the northway. The thruway is my own personal focus because 1) I live in Syracuse and 2) I have family in the Hudson Valley and 3) I have friends in Rochester and Buffalo. It connects the majority of my trips. The same is likely true for many New Yorkers.

But again, I am not "fixated" on it, and fully recognize that there are other important corridors in the state.

GetOffYourGas wrote:...I don't disagree that there should be QCs all the way to the Canadian border...


It would also be good to put a couple of QC along the I-86/Route 17 corridor. There's one in Elmira. There should be one in Olean, Binghamton, Middletown, maybe Liberty too.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

LeftieBiker
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Re: Rebates Drive Up EV Sales By 74% In New York

Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:36 am

Yes, but NYS should be building for the fleet we want in the future, not the one we have today. If they built a robust QC corridor along the Thruway (I-87 NYC to Albany and I-90 Albany to Buffalo), I guarantee you that BEVs would sell much better.


(Emphasis added by me.)

I didn't cut the first part out to change the meaning. In fact, it reinforces my point: why focus on the Thruway Authority when you are talking about the state? I don't understand why you made the distinction you did, after talking specifically about "NYS." You say it's your personal preference, but you were talking about BEV sales, not about the state building what your family wants. There is a heck of a lot of traffic between Albany and Montreal. Oh well...
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1648
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Rebates Drive Up EV Sales By 74% In New York

Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:34 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Yes, but NYS should be building for the fleet we want in the future, not the one we have today. If they built a robust QC corridor along the Thruway (I-87 NYC to Albany and I-90 Albany to Buffalo), I guarantee you that BEVs would sell much better.


(Emphasis added by me.)

I didn't cut the first part out to change the meaning. In fact, it reinforces my point: why focus on the Thruway Authority when you are talking about the state? I don't understand why you made the distinction you did, after talking specifically about "NYS." You say it's your personal preference, but you were talking about BEV sales, not about the state building what your family wants. There is a heck of a lot of traffic between Albany and Montreal. Oh well...


Ok, we're just splitting hairs. You read what I wrote with a different lens than I had when I wrote it. I think we agree that Albany-Montreal is important. So can't we just agree to agree?
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

LeftieBiker
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Re: Rebates Drive Up EV Sales By 74% In New York

Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:56 am

It appears that we do agree, at least now.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

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DNAinaGoodWay
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Location: Central Massachusetts

Re: Rebates Drive Up EV Sales By 74% In New York

Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:41 am

There are QCs all the way from Albany to Montreal now, only they're in Vermont.
'12 SL last reading @ 2 yr, 22k, 260 GIDs, 62.35 Ahr

'15 SV w/QC, Mfd 5/14, Leased 8/14, 292 GIDs, 64.38 Ahr when new
@ 36 months, 34k, 270 GID, 57.49 Ahr

'17 Bolt LT



6.72 kW Array

GetOffYourGas
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Re: Rebates Drive Up EV Sales By 74% In New York

Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:22 am

Have you driven that stretch of road in VT? The posted speed limit is 50 MPH (not that anyone abides by it). It's very different road from an interstate, though. I guess that would be to your benefit in an EV, since lower speeds net you more miles/kWh.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

User avatar
DNAinaGoodWay
Posts: 2751
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Re: Rebates Drive Up EV Sales By 74% In New York

Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:01 am

I like RT 7, and it has QC. Upstate NY is a QC desert.
'12 SL last reading @ 2 yr, 22k, 260 GIDs, 62.35 Ahr

'15 SV w/QC, Mfd 5/14, Leased 8/14, 292 GIDs, 64.38 Ahr when new
@ 36 months, 34k, 270 GID, 57.49 Ahr

'17 Bolt LT



6.72 kW Array

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1648
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
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Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Rebates Drive Up EV Sales By 74% In New York

Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:10 am

Agreed on both accounts. I personally enjoy driving on 7. The route isn't as popular as I-87 of course, so QCs there would help more people.

Looking at the QC map on Plugshare makes me sad. Living in Syracuse, I'm smack dab in the middle of a giant hole. Whenever I come home from a long trip, I will have to charge deep into the taper region of my Bolt in order to make it.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

GRA
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Re: Rebates Drive Up EV Sales By 74% In New York

Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:47 pm

GetOffYourGas, this study discusses the issues affecting the mix of QCs versus destination charging, and the numbers needed: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=24679#p507373

The suggested ratio works out to almost 22 non-residential (L2) plug: 1 QC plug. Out of the 8,500 QC stations (27,500 plugs) only 400 stations (2,500 plugs) need to be on interstate corridors.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1648
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Rebates Drive Up EV Sales By 74% In New York

Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:29 am

Thanks for the study link, Guy! I haven't read it yet, but I will.

I agree that L2 needs to grow faster than QC. I'm just not sure that what I'm seeing of that growth is right. L2 needs to go at residences and workplaces more than anywhere. Around here, I am seeing a bunch go in at shopping centers and restaurants. I'm not sure that makes sense in the long run. If you have a 200+ mile BEV that can charge at home and at work, L2 at the mall offers very little benefit.

And then there is this one:
https://api.plugshare.com/view/location/55397

It's called a "market", but it's a glorified rest stop along the Taconic State Parkway. Having L2 there seems like a waste of money.

And having only 5% of the QC along highway corridors? Again, that feels wrong for a world with 200+ mile EVs.

I guess I should just read that study...
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

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