GRA
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Re: AB544 extending green and white stickers signed.

Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:32 pm

Nubo wrote:
mxp wrote:It's a really long read in the legislature weblink.

What happens people who own say, 2011 Leafs with expiring HOV stickers? What are our options? Do our stickers expire Jan 1 2019 and cannot be extended ?

I would like to keep my 2011 Leaf for as long as possible, but I also need my HOV sticker.


Iirc, the original rule was that all of the stickers were going to expire in 2019, period. So this sounds like a compromise to continue encouraging new EV purchases while mitigating some of the complaints. One of which was that HOVs lanes in some areas were becoming overcrowded to the point where they were no longer useful. Personally I would have preferred better enforcement against the cheaters, but EVs make a politically convenient target.

There was also supposed to be a study done before the end of this year to see what the effects of SO HOV stickers were having on congestion in HOV lanes, but that doesn't appear to have been done. The effects are clear, though, as a lot of HOV lanes in the state are unable to maintain the federally-required minimum average operating speed of 45 mph. As you note, this encourages purchase of new PEVs (allowing more to flow down in the used market), while also limiting the overcrowding in the HOV lanes through the institution of a max. 4 year usage by a single car. IIRR, originally the stickers were supposed to expire on either 1/1/16 or 1/1/17 (forget which), so early adopters have already gotten a couple of years' bonus.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

mxp
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Re: AB544 extending green and white stickers signed.

Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:23 pm

Thanks. So, I suppose selling the old Leaf is the only option now if we require the HOV stickers. :-( I am just frustrated that leasing an EV is what AB544 will be steering most of the people towards. No help for anyone desiring to keep an environmentally clean vehicle for life.

GRA wrote:
Nubo wrote:
mxp wrote:It's a really long read in the legislature weblink.

What happens people who own say, 2011 Leafs with expiring HOV stickers? What are our options? Do our stickers expire Jan 1 2019 and cannot be extended ?

I would like to keep my 2011 Leaf for as long as possible, but I also need my HOV sticker.


Iirc, the original rule was that all of the stickers were going to expire in 2019, period. So this sounds like a compromise to continue encouraging new EV purchases while mitigating some of the complaints. One of which was that HOVs lanes in some areas were becoming overcrowded to the point where they were no longer useful. Personally I would have preferred better enforcement against the cheaters, but EVs make a politically convenient target.

There was also supposed to be a study done before the end of this year to see what the effects of SO HOV stickers were having on congestion in HOV lanes, but that doesn't appear to have been done. The effects are clear, though, as a lot of HOV lanes in the state are unable to maintain the federally-required minimum average operating speed of 45 mph. As you note, this encourages purchase of new PEVs (allowing more to flow down in the used market), while also limiting the overcrowding in the HOV lanes through the institution of a max. 4 year usage by a single car. IIRR, originally the stickers were supposed to expire on either 1/1/16 or 1/1/17 (forget which), so early adopters have already gotten a couple of years' bonus.

GRA
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Re: AB544 extending green and white stickers signed.

Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:21 pm

mxp wrote:Thanks. So, I suppose selling the old Leaf is the only option now if we require the HOV stickers. :-( I am just frustrated that leasing an EV is what AB544 will be steering most of the people towards. No help for anyone desiring to keep an environmentally clean vehicle for life.

Well, look at it this way. I've always felt that the SO HOV stickers were a necessary but strictly temporary evil, as single occupant car commuting is the last thing we should be encouraging people to do, whatever the energy source. However, they have unquestionably boosted PEV sales and leases in California, putting far more PEVs into the fleet and introducing them to many more people, and they can ultimately be bought used by people who could never afford them new.

The HOV perk is just that, and a LEAF that can get you to work in the HOV lane will also get you to work in stop and go traffic in a non-HOV lane (and may well do so with less range anxiety if you don't have to use a lot of HVAC), so it's not as if the car is useless, anymore than Priuses with yellow HOV stickers became useless when those expired.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

cwerdna
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Re: AB544 extending green and white stickers signed.

Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:45 am

GRA wrote:
cwerdna wrote:^^^
The verbiage at https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/face ... 20180AB544 is confusing. I'll need to re-read it a bunch of times to figure it out.

https://ww2.kqed.org/science/2017/09/15 ... ne-access/ that was written in Sept 2017 claimed
In addition, drivers that receive the Clean Vehicle Rebate, a state-funded rebate that can be several thousand dollars, won’t be eligible for HOV lane stickers unless their gross annual income falls below $150,000 for a single tax filer, $204,000 for a head of household filer, and $300,000 for joint filers.

https://www.gov.ca.gov/news.php?id=20002 confirms the signing.

Which part of the verbiage did you find confusing? The part about high-income people not being able to get both the rebate and the stickers seems clear. I admit the explanation of some of the expiration dates was a bit murky, but as best I can tell it says that those who got a sticker between 1/1/17 and 1/1/18 will have to get another one to carry them to the end of the expiration period.


I've heard at least several interpretations and I'm not sure which is right. Examples:
1) https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-2358153 - if your income is too high to qualify for CVRP, you also CANNOT get the HOV stickers. Thus, if you can't qualify for CVRP, you can't get the HOV stickers either.

2) You can only get 1 or the other (CVRP or sticker), if your income is too high. That wouldn't be so bad if since w/my current job, my income is too high so I can't qualify for CVRP anyway.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

GRA
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Re: AB544 extending green and white stickers signed.

Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:11 pm

cwerdna wrote:
GRA wrote:
cwerdna wrote:^^^
The verbiage at https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/face ... 20180AB544 is confusing. I'll need to re-read it a bunch of times to figure it out.

https://ww2.kqed.org/science/2017/09/15 ... ne-access/ that was written in Sept 2017 claimed

https://www.gov.ca.gov/news.php?id=20002 confirms the signing.

Which part of the verbiage did you find confusing? The part about high-income people not being able to get both the rebate and the stickers seems clear. I admit the explanation of some of the expiration dates was a bit murky, but as best I can tell it says that those who got a sticker between 1/1/17 and 1/1/18 will have to get another one to carry them to the end of the expiration period.


I've heard at least several interpretations and I'm not sure which is right. Examples:
1) https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-2358153 - if your income is too high to qualify for CVRP, you also CANNOT get the HOV stickers. Thus, if you can't qualify for CVRP, you can't get the HOV stickers either.

2) You can only get 1 or the other (CVRP or sticker), if your income is too high. That wouldn't be so bad if since w/my current job, my income is too high so I can't qualify for CVRP anyway.

My earlier post directly quoted the text of the bill, and #2 is correct. To repeat:

(b)(1) The department shall not issue a decal, label, or other identifier to an applicant who has received a consumer rebate pursuant to the Clean Vehicle Rebate Project, established as part of the Air Quality Improvement Program pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 44274) of Chapter 8.9 of Part 5 of Division 26 of the Health and Safety Code, for a vehicle purchased on or after January 1, 2018, unless the rebate was issued to a buyer whose gross annual income falls below one hundred fifty thousand dollars ($150,000) for a person who files a tax return as a single person, two hundred four thousand dollars ($204,000) for a person who files a tax return as a head of household, and three hundred thousand dollars ($300,000) for a person who files a joint tax return.
Last edited by GRA on Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

cwerdna
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Re: AB544 extending green and white stickers signed.

Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:11 am

^^^
That's part of what's confusing. The $150K, $204K, $300K income limit for CVRP eligibility has been in effect since Nov 1, 2016: https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng/income-eligibility. And, until AB 544 was signed, the two programs had nothing to do with the other in terms of eligibility/receipt of $ vs. sticker.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: AB544 extending green and white stickers signed.

Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:14 pm

cwerdna wrote:^^^
That's part of what's confusing. The $150K, $204K, $300K income limit for CVRP eligibility has been in effect since Nov 1, 2016: https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng/income-eligibility. And, until AB 544 was signed, the two programs had nothing to do with the other in terms of eligibility/receipt of $ vs. sticker.

As the text states, the new limitation only applies to "a vehicle purchased on or after January 1, 2018." The rest are grandfathered in, but as I read it those purchased between 1/1/17 and 1/1/18 will need to apply for a new time-limited sticker. It's that section that's murky to me.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

RonDawg
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Re: AB544 extending green and white stickers signed.

Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:34 am

Nubo wrote:[So this sounds like a compromise to continue encouraging new EV purchases while mitigating some of the complaints.


And also to placate EV, especially PHEV, manufacturers. Remember when there was a cap on those green stickers? That got extended twice IIRC, then done away with. No doubt that was done at the behest of manufacturers with PHEVs, especially those with no BEVs in their lineup.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar on 11/21/2015 at 26,435 miles.
Lease returned on 12/23/2015. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL

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