AB544 extending green and white stickers signed.

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TomT

Well-known member
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New legislation to extend the HOV program (among other things) through 2025 in California has been signed by Brown - details here: http://www.imperialvalleynews.com/index.php/news/california-news/12395-governor-brown-signs-legislation-to-increase-zero-emission-vehicle-sales.html

Something curious in AB544:
1) Provided that, for white HOV decals issued for ILEVs and green HOV decals issued for TZEVs, the following expiration dates apply:
a) Decals issued prior to January 1, 2018, are valid until January 1, 2019;
b) Decals issued on or after January 1, 2018, and before January 1, 2019, are valid until January 1, 2022; and,
c) Decals issued on or after January 1, 2019, are valid until January 1 of the fourth year after the year of issuance.

So, at most, decals are good for four years and cannot be renewed.
 
That's ok, I guess. But it sounds like a pain in the butt to enforce. And makes leases that much more preferable to purchase for people whose primary motivation is HOV access.
 
I keep thinking the green stickers would expire first.

Hard to understand how a single color could have different expiration. How can that be enforced?
 
smkettner said:
I keep thinking the green stickers would expire first.

Hard to understand how a single color could have different expiration. How can that be enforced?

The simplest way would be to change the design to add an expiration year to them.
 
To me, while I'd still like to see them reduce the income limits to no more than half what they currently are, the most important change is that after 1/1/18 high income individuals are no longer eligible to get both the state rebate and the stickers - they've got to choose one or the other. I have no doubt at all that most of the Tesla/BMW/Mercedes/Porsche etc. PEV buyers will opt for the sticker, leaving far more money to be distributed to those for whom the rebate has far more value. I just wish that they'd also limited the max. MSRP + Dest. or better yet the out-the-door price less government taxes and fees to say $40k, decreasing on an annual or biannual basis.

(b) (1) The department shall not issue a decal, label, or other identifier to an applicant who has received a consumer rebate pursuant to the Clean Vehicle Rebate Project, established as part of the Air Quality Improvement Program pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 44274) of Chapter 8.9 of Part 5 of Division 26 of the Health and Safety Code, for a vehicle purchased on or after January 1, 2018, unless the rebate was issued to a buyer whose gross annual income falls below one hundred fifty thousand dollars ($150,000) for a person who files a tax return as a single person, two hundred four thousand dollars ($204,000) for a person who files a tax return as a head of household, and three hundred thousand dollars ($300,000) for a person who files a joint tax return.
 
^^^
The verbiage at https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201720180AB544 is confusing. I'll need to re-read it a bunch of times to figure it out.

https://ww2.kqed.org/science/2017/09/15/ca-legislature-clean-cars-can-keep-carpool-lane-access/ that was written in Sept 2017 claimed
In addition, drivers that receive the Clean Vehicle Rebate, a state-funded rebate that can be several thousand dollars, won’t be eligible for HOV lane stickers unless their gross annual income falls below $150,000 for a single tax filer, $204,000 for a head of household filer, and $300,000 for joint filers.
https://www.gov.ca.gov/news.php?id=20002 confirms the signing.
 
SO I read the new AB 544 bill correctly
- Cars purchased in 2019: HOV sticker will be good thru Jan 1 2025 (good)
- Cars purchased in 2017 & 2018: can apply for extension of HOV sticker (Jan 1 2019 -> extend to Jan 1 2025 (also good)

- Cars purchased in 2016 or earlier are SOL ???? Stickers expire Jan 1 2019 and cannot be extended ????? (yikes !!)


I have a 2013 Leaf (initially leased, then purchased when I got 5K off the lease buy-back from Nissan). So if my read of the bill is correct, the HOV stickers for this car will not be renewable. Which means the value of the car will almost instantly drop to "0" (who will want a 2013 Leaf which is not eligible for HOV sticker ??)


Does anybody else have comments ? Hope I am mis-reading the bill. Otherwise I better trade in my Leaf for something in the very near future, before its value drops to 0 !!


--Sunil
 
cwerdna said:
^^^
The verbiage at https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201720180AB544 is confusing. I'll need to re-read it a bunch of times to figure it out.

https://ww2.kqed.org/science/2017/09/15/ca-legislature-clean-cars-can-keep-carpool-lane-access/ that was written in Sept 2017 claimed
In addition, drivers that receive the Clean Vehicle Rebate, a state-funded rebate that can be several thousand dollars, won’t be eligible for HOV lane stickers unless their gross annual income falls below $150,000 for a single tax filer, $204,000 for a head of household filer, and $300,000 for joint filers.
https://www.gov.ca.gov/news.php?id=20002 confirms the signing.
Which part of the verbiage did you find confusing? The part about high-income people not being able to get both the rebate and the stickers seems clear. I admit the explanation of some of the expiration dates was a bit murky, but as best I can tell it says that those who got a sticker between 1/1/17 and 1/1/18 will have to get another one to carry them to the end of the expiration period.
 
There's already a thread about it: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=508066#p508066
 
It's a really long read in the legislature weblink.

What happens people who own say, 2011 Leafs with expiring HOV stickers? What are our options? Do our stickers expire Jan 1 2019 and cannot be extended ?

I would like to keep my 2011 Leaf for as long as possible, but I also need my HOV sticker.


GRA said:
cwerdna said:
^^^
The verbiage at https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201720180AB544 is confusing. I'll need to re-read it a bunch of times to figure it out.

https://ww2.kqed.org/science/2017/09/15/ca-legislature-clean-cars-can-keep-carpool-lane-access/ that was written in Sept 2017 claimed
In addition, drivers that receive the Clean Vehicle Rebate, a state-funded rebate that can be several thousand dollars, won’t be eligible for HOV lane stickers unless their gross annual income falls below $150,000 for a single tax filer, $204,000 for a head of household filer, and $300,000 for joint filers.
https://www.gov.ca.gov/news.php?id=20002 confirms the signing.
Which part of the verbiage did you find confusing? The part about high-income people not being able to get both the rebate and the stickers seems clear. I admit the explanation of some of the expiration dates was a bit murky, but as best I can tell it says that those who got a sticker between 1/1/17 and 1/1/18 will have to get another one to carry them to the end of the expiration period.
 
mxp said:
It's a really long read in the legislature weblink.

What happens people who own say, 2011 Leafs with expiring HOV stickers? What are our options? Do our stickers expire Jan 1 2019 and cannot be extended ?

I would like to keep my 2011 Leaf for as long as possible, but I also need my HOV sticker.

Yep, that's what it says.
 
mxp said:
It's a really long read in the legislature weblink.

What happens people who own say, 2011 Leafs with expiring HOV stickers? What are our options? Do our stickers expire Jan 1 2019 and cannot be extended ?

I would like to keep my 2011 Leaf for as long as possible, but I also need my HOV sticker.

Iirc, the original rule was that all of the stickers were going to expire in 2019, period. So this sounds like a compromise to continue encouraging new EV purchases while mitigating some of the complaints. One of which was that HOVs lanes in some areas were becoming overcrowded to the point where they were no longer useful. Personally I would have preferred better enforcement against the cheaters, but EVs make a politically convenient target.
 
Nubo said:
mxp said:
It's a really long read in the legislature weblink.

What happens people who own say, 2011 Leafs with expiring HOV stickers? What are our options? Do our stickers expire Jan 1 2019 and cannot be extended ?

I would like to keep my 2011 Leaf for as long as possible, but I also need my HOV sticker.

Iirc, the original rule was that all of the stickers were going to expire in 2019, period. So this sounds like a compromise to continue encouraging new EV purchases while mitigating some of the complaints. One of which was that HOVs lanes in some areas were becoming overcrowded to the point where they were no longer useful. Personally I would have preferred better enforcement against the cheaters, but EVs make a politically convenient target.
There was also supposed to be a study done before the end of this year to see what the effects of SO HOV stickers were having on congestion in HOV lanes, but that doesn't appear to have been done. The effects are clear, though, as a lot of HOV lanes in the state are unable to maintain the federally-required minimum average operating speed of 45 mph. As you note, this encourages purchase of new PEVs (allowing more to flow down in the used market), while also limiting the overcrowding in the HOV lanes through the institution of a max. 4 year usage by a single car. IIRR, originally the stickers were supposed to expire on either 1/1/16 or 1/1/17 (forget which), so early adopters have already gotten a couple of years' bonus.
 
Thanks. So, I suppose selling the old Leaf is the only option now if we require the HOV stickers. :-( I am just frustrated that leasing an EV is what AB544 will be steering most of the people towards. No help for anyone desiring to keep an environmentally clean vehicle for life.

GRA said:
Nubo said:
mxp said:
It's a really long read in the legislature weblink.

What happens people who own say, 2011 Leafs with expiring HOV stickers? What are our options? Do our stickers expire Jan 1 2019 and cannot be extended ?

I would like to keep my 2011 Leaf for as long as possible, but I also need my HOV sticker.

Iirc, the original rule was that all of the stickers were going to expire in 2019, period. So this sounds like a compromise to continue encouraging new EV purchases while mitigating some of the complaints. One of which was that HOVs lanes in some areas were becoming overcrowded to the point where they were no longer useful. Personally I would have preferred better enforcement against the cheaters, but EVs make a politically convenient target.
There was also supposed to be a study done before the end of this year to see what the effects of SO HOV stickers were having on congestion in HOV lanes, but that doesn't appear to have been done. The effects are clear, though, as a lot of HOV lanes in the state are unable to maintain the federally-required minimum average operating speed of 45 mph. As you note, this encourages purchase of new PEVs (allowing more to flow down in the used market), while also limiting the overcrowding in the HOV lanes through the institution of a max. 4 year usage by a single car. IIRR, originally the stickers were supposed to expire on either 1/1/16 or 1/1/17 (forget which), so early adopters have already gotten a couple of years' bonus.
 
mxp said:
Thanks. So, I suppose selling the old Leaf is the only option now if we require the HOV stickers. :-( I am just frustrated that leasing an EV is what AB544 will be steering most of the people towards. No help for anyone desiring to keep an environmentally clean vehicle for life.
Well, look at it this way. I've always felt that the SO HOV stickers were a necessary but strictly temporary evil, as single occupant car commuting is the last thing we should be encouraging people to do, whatever the energy source. However, they have unquestionably boosted PEV sales and leases in California, putting far more PEVs into the fleet and introducing them to many more people, and they can ultimately be bought used by people who could never afford them new.

The HOV perk is just that, and a LEAF that can get you to work in the HOV lane will also get you to work in stop and go traffic in a non-HOV lane (and may well do so with less range anxiety if you don't have to use a lot of HVAC), so it's not as if the car is useless, anymore than Priuses with yellow HOV stickers became useless when those expired.
 
GRA said:
cwerdna said:
^^^
The verbiage at https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201720180AB544 is confusing. I'll need to re-read it a bunch of times to figure it out.

https://ww2.kqed.org/science/2017/09/15/ca-legislature-clean-cars-can-keep-carpool-lane-access/ that was written in Sept 2017 claimed
In addition, drivers that receive the Clean Vehicle Rebate, a state-funded rebate that can be several thousand dollars, won’t be eligible for HOV lane stickers unless their gross annual income falls below $150,000 for a single tax filer, $204,000 for a head of household filer, and $300,000 for joint filers.
https://www.gov.ca.gov/news.php?id=20002 confirms the signing.
Which part of the verbiage did you find confusing? The part about high-income people not being able to get both the rebate and the stickers seems clear. I admit the explanation of some of the expiration dates was a bit murky, but as best I can tell it says that those who got a sticker between 1/1/17 and 1/1/18 will have to get another one to carry them to the end of the expiration period.

I've heard at least several interpretations and I'm not sure which is right. Examples:
1) https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/ca-hov-white-stickers-exp-1-1-19.99991/#post-2358153 - if your income is too high to qualify for CVRP, you also CANNOT get the HOV stickers. Thus, if you can't qualify for CVRP, you can't get the HOV stickers either.

2) You can only get 1 or the other (CVRP or sticker), if your income is too high. That wouldn't be so bad if since w/my current job, my income is too high so I can't qualify for CVRP anyway.
 
cwerdna said:
GRA said:
cwerdna said:
^^^
The verbiage at https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201720180AB544 is confusing. I'll need to re-read it a bunch of times to figure it out.

https://ww2.kqed.org/science/2017/09/15/ca-legislature-clean-cars-can-keep-carpool-lane-access/ that was written in Sept 2017 claimed

https://www.gov.ca.gov/news.php?id=20002 confirms the signing.
Which part of the verbiage did you find confusing? The part about high-income people not being able to get both the rebate and the stickers seems clear. I admit the explanation of some of the expiration dates was a bit murky, but as best I can tell it says that those who got a sticker between 1/1/17 and 1/1/18 will have to get another one to carry them to the end of the expiration period.

I've heard at least several interpretations and I'm not sure which is right. Examples:
1) https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/ca-hov-white-stickers-exp-1-1-19.99991/#post-2358153 - if your income is too high to qualify for CVRP, you also CANNOT get the HOV stickers. Thus, if you can't qualify for CVRP, you can't get the HOV stickers either.

2) You can only get 1 or the other (CVRP or sticker), if your income is too high. That wouldn't be so bad if since w/my current job, my income is too high so I can't qualify for CVRP anyway.
My earlier post directly quoted the text of the bill, and #2 is correct. To repeat:

(b)(1) The department shall not issue a decal, label, or other identifier to an applicant who has received a consumer rebate pursuant to the Clean Vehicle Rebate Project, established as part of the Air Quality Improvement Program pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 44274) of Chapter 8.9 of Part 5 of Division 26 of the Health and Safety Code, for a vehicle purchased on or after January 1, 2018, unless the rebate was issued to a buyer whose gross annual income falls below one hundred fifty thousand dollars ($150,000) for a person who files a tax return as a single person, two hundred four thousand dollars ($204,000) for a person who files a tax return as a head of household, and three hundred thousand dollars ($300,000) for a person who files a joint tax return.
 
^^^
That's part of what's confusing. The $150K, $204K, $300K income limit for CVRP eligibility has been in effect since Nov 1, 2016: https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng/income-eligibility. And, until AB 544 was signed, the two programs had nothing to do with the other in terms of eligibility/receipt of $ vs. sticker.
 
cwerdna said:
^^^
That's part of what's confusing. The $150K, $204K, $300K income limit for CVRP eligibility has been in effect since Nov 1, 2016: https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng/income-eligibility. And, until AB 544 was signed, the two programs had nothing to do with the other in terms of eligibility/receipt of $ vs. sticker.
As the text states, the new limitation only applies to "a vehicle purchased on or after January 1, 2018." The rest are grandfathered in, but as I read it those purchased between 1/1/17 and 1/1/18 will need to apply for a new time-limited sticker. It's that section that's murky to me.
 
Nubo said:
[So this sounds like a compromise to continue encouraging new EV purchases while mitigating some of the complaints.

And also to placate EV, especially PHEV, manufacturers. Remember when there was a cap on those green stickers? That got extended twice IIRC, then done away with. No doubt that was done at the behest of manufacturers with PHEVs, especially those with no BEVs in their lineup.
 
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