WetEV
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Re: Republican tax proposal will terminate $7,500 EV tax credit

Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:18 am

LTLFTcomposite wrote:I thought EVs we're supposed to be cheaper anyway, so many fewer moving parts.
Why would used EV prices skyrocket?


It is what I would expect. Fewer new EVs sold mean fewer old EVs on the used market. Less supply likely means higher prices. Probably more of impact in Washington State than Florida, due to battery life differences.

Long term, EVs are cheaper. The supply of cheap oil is limited, and while we can clearly find oil deep offshore and make a lot of oil from tar sands, oil shales and coal to liquids, these are far more expensive. Battery prices per Wh have been falling over the past 3 decades, and are expected to continue to do so for another decade or more. We are in the crossover, where EVs are sometimes cheaper, depending on personal details, considering only the visible costs. As for costs harder to see, did you ever visit LA in the early 1970's? Or Beijing recently? Also climate change.

As for the tax proposal, I'd expect the Republicans to keep the EV tax credit termination. Far more interesting question, can the Republicans pass a tax proposal that will help corporations and the very wealthy, and hurt many less well off individuals; not to mention add trillions to the debt? Not clear to me, and not clear if even their supporters will like the results.
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desiv
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Re: Republiscum tax reform proposal will terminate $7,500 EV tax credit

Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:48 am

DarthPuppy wrote: Guess the net price of the 2018 will be $7,500 higher than I was planning on. Grumble.

I wonder if there will be a small rush of people who were going to wait for the 2018 Leaf in Jan (or to a smaller extent waiting for their Model 3) to buy the Bolt this year to qualify for the rebate?

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Nubo
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Re: Republican tax proposal will terminate $7,500 EV tax credit

Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:12 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Yeah I'd be surprised if there is not a TON of negotiations before any major tax reform is enacted.


I'm sure that there will. Now, does anyone really believe that those negotiations will involve a real fight to save the EV credit? If anything it will become a sop to Republicans to let it die, in return for something like a slightly higher cutoff for mortgage deductions.


I agree, that's likely. No better trophy for the Oilygopoly than killing the evil EV industry. True to form the "party of Business" absolutely hates the first major U.S. automaker to establish itself in living memory. But in the long run, for EVs to thrive, they first have to survive the ending of tax credit incentives. For the pioneering companies like Tesla and Nissan, the end of incentives was nearing anyway. The high irony is this move would punish the laggards more than the innovators. And ultimately help Tesla more than it hurts them. :lol:
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Re: Republican tax proposal will terminate $7,500 EV tax credit

Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:37 am

We need someone who can read "legalize" to confirm if it passes as proposed when the credit would end. I have to believe if it ends Dec 31 or 2017 there will be a rush on EV before then.
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jlv
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Re: Republican tax proposal will terminate $7,500 EV tax credit

Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:48 am

Forget all the Model 3 production issues. I still believe that Tesla will solve them.

If this credit ends this year, I think they are sunk. I suspect more than half the reservation holders would cancel. I know I would.
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Re: Republican tax proposal will terminate $7,500 EV tax credit

Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:14 pm

It will be interesting to see if Nissan can hurriedly come up with a "delayed lease" program that lets us pay for the car in 2017, with the lease starting on delivery in 2018. Failing that, or the budget getting stalled for 6 months, it looks like I'll have to lease a Bolt*. I'll also look into smoking what DanCar is smoking, I think.


* The logistics of that will be fiendish. I can either lease one now, in November, and throw away a chance to drive a 2018 Leaf, or I can wait until December, and see Bolt leases skyrocket again if the tax plan passes.
Last edited by LeftieBiker on Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Republican tax proposal will terminate $7,500 EV tax credit

Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:45 am

The credit comes from this part of the law:

Title 26, Subtitle A, Chapter 1, Subchapter A, Part IV, Subpart B, §30D of the U.S. tax code.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/30D

So what we need to look for is modifications to that part of the law.

Here is one place you can download it:

https://www.vox.com/2017/11/2/16596110/ ... -bill-read

and you will find on page 72:

10 SEC. 1102. REPEAL OF NONREFUNDABLE CREDITS


and later in that section on page 74:

7 (d) REPEAL OF SECTION 30D.—
8 (1) IN GENERAL.—Subpart B of part IV of
9 subchapter A of chapter 1 is amended by striking
10 section 30D (and by striking the item relating to
11 such section in the table of sections for such sub-
12 part).

13 (2) CONFORMING AMENDMENTS.—
14 (A) Section 38(b) is amended by striking
15 paragraph (35).
16 (B) Section 1016(a) is amended by strik-
17 ing paragraph (37).
18 (C) Section 6501(m) is amended by strik-
19 ing ‘‘30D(e)(4),’’.
20 (e) EFFECTIVE DATE.—
21 (1) IN GENERAL.—Except as provided in para-
22 graphs (2) and (3), the amendments made by this
23 section shall apply to taxable years beginning after
24 December 31, 2017.


So there it is. You won't find a reference to electric vehicles, because that would be too transparent.
There is a lot buried in that 429 page bill that you need to cross reference with the original law.

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Re: Republican tax proposal will terminate $7,500 EV tax credit

Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:16 am

It was a dumb move for Musk to abandon that advisory council thing.
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Re: Republican tax proposal will terminate $7,500 EV tax credit

Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:04 am

LTLFTcomposite wrote:It was a dumb move for Musk to abandon that advisory council thing.

Agree. Just because he doesn't agree with somethings, doesn't mean he can't be influenced in other areas.

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Re: Republican tax proposal will terminate $7,500 EV tax credit

Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:08 am

Poll: In the U.S.A. will killing the federal tax credit of $7,500 significantly affect EV sales?
https://plus.google.com/u/1/+DanielCardenas/posts/83cqBXjPbsd

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