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Nubo
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Location: Vallejo, CA

Re: Gasoline, diesel and older hybrids may be banned in parts of East London during parts of work week

Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:59 pm

cmwade77 wrote:...
We are already starting to see the beginnings of a mass conversion to EV technology, at least out here in Southern California. For some reason, Northern California, which is statistically more into saving the environment has been a lot slower to adapt to EVs compared to Southern California. ...


It depends I guess on whether you consider the San Francisco bay area to be "northern California", and whether you're looking at straight registration numbers or per-capita. Normalized to comparable sales, the Bay Area leads by far, with rates of over 5% all the way up to 12% for Santa Clara county. LA and SD counties stand at 4%.

page 26: https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/sites/de ... andout.pdf
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

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IssacZachary
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Re: Gasoline, diesel and older hybrids may be banned in parts of East London during parts of work week

Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:05 pm

cmwade77 wrote:
IssacZachary wrote:This seems to be like what they do in Mexico. Older cars are banned from driving during certain parts of the week, unless you're able to improve or eliminate the emissions, for an example: doing an EV conversion.

You can get better emissions in diesels. But it's more expensive to do so than in gasoline engines. But still, gasoline or diesel, prices will keep going up for the price of the car making companies impelled to cheat more if governments keep making tighter emissions requirements.

Diesel is not the problem. It's the way it's burned that's the problem. The 1920's Doble Steam cars ran on diesel and are said to get emissions that rival modern day Californian standards, and even got 15mpg despite weighing over 6,000lbs. But we are talking about a car that cost 10 times that of any other car on the road. Same thing today, they can make diesels and gasoline cars that get much better emissions than they are now. But the price is going to be several times what it costs now.

I say set the emissions standards super high and do extreme emissions testing on all vehicles and fine the living snot out of any company that doesn't comply with the standards. This should either make car companies find a way to get gasoline or diesel or whatever to meet the standards or a mas conversion to EV technology.

We are already starting to see the beginnings of a mass conversion to EV technology, at least out here in Southern California. For some reason, Northern California, which is statistically more into saving the environment has been a lot slower to adapt to EVs compared to Southern California. Even Oregon is more on the EV bandwagon than Northern California, so much so that they are offering to pay for chargers (even solar powered ones) in Northern California just so that people from Oregon can drive their EV from Oregon to Southern California.

I wish it were that way here. We have a pretty good tax credit on EV's from Colorado state and plans on the way for more charging infrastructure. But it just hasn't caught up yet and I'm finding myself having to go back to ICE technology and selling my EV. :cry:
2013 SL SOLD :cry:
1972 VW Beetle SOLD :cry:
1984 VW Golf diesel CURRENT :x
2013 Toyota Avalon Hybrid CONTEMPLATING :shock:

GRA
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Re: Gasoline, diesel and older hybrids may be banned in parts of East London during parts of work week

Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:23 pm

Nubo wrote:
cmwade77 wrote:...
We are already starting to see the beginnings of a mass conversion to EV technology, at least out here in Southern California. For some reason, Northern California, which is statistically more into saving the environment has been a lot slower to adapt to EVs compared to Southern California. ...


It depends I guess on whether you consider the San Francisco bay area to be "northern California", and whether you're looking at straight registration numbers or per-capita. Normalized to comparable sales, the Bay Area leads by far, with rates of over 5% all the way up to 12% for Santa Clara county. LA and SD counties stand at 4%.

page 26: https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/sites/de ... andout.pdf

Indeed. Also see:
ICCT analysis of California top EV cities finds link between EV uptake and many underlying factors
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=22554&p=469877&hilit=mountain+view#p469759

The cities with the highest uptake are in the Bay Area, with Saratoga #1 at 18%, and that's from over a year ago. From that thread:
Saratoga, actually, a higher income Silicon Valley suburb. Other cities that exceed San Jose are almost all high income Silicon Valley suburbs: Los Altos, Los Gatos, Palo Alto, Menlo Park, Fremont, Campbell, Mountain View etc. Per the chart, San Jose's down about 8%: http://bioage.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c4fbe53ef01bb09355f28970d-popup

Socal leads in total number of vehicles due to its much larger population, but not in percentage.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

cmwade77
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Re: Gasoline, diesel and older hybrids may be banned in parts of East London during parts of work week

Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:39 am

GRA wrote:
Nubo wrote:
cmwade77 wrote:...
We are already starting to see the beginnings of a mass conversion to EV technology, at least out here in Southern California. For some reason, Northern California, which is statistically more into saving the environment has been a lot slower to adapt to EVs compared to Southern California. ...


It depends I guess on whether you consider the San Francisco bay area to be "northern California", and whether you're looking at straight registration numbers or per-capita. Normalized to comparable sales, the Bay Area leads by far, with rates of over 5% all the way up to 12% for Santa Clara county. LA and SD counties stand at 4%.

page 26: https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/sites/de ... andout.pdf

Indeed. Also see:
ICCT analysis of California top EV cities finds link between EV uptake and many underlying factors
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=22554&p=469877&hilit=mountain+view#p469759

The cities with the highest uptake are in the Bay Area, with Saratoga #1 at 18%, and that's from over a year ago. From that thread:
Saratoga, actually, a higher income Silicon Valley suburb. Other cities that exceed San Jose are almost all high income Silicon Valley suburbs: Los Altos, Los Gatos, Palo Alto, Menlo Park, Fremont, Campbell, Mountain View etc. Per the chart, San Jose's down about 8%: http://bioage.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c4fbe53ef01bb09355f28970d-popup

Socal leads in total number of vehicles due to its much larger population, but not in percentage.

From my vantage point, I am looking strictly at the number of public charging stations available, as there is usually a direct correlation between the number of available stations and the number of EVs on the roads.

Really Northern California, including the areas you mentioned have relatively few EV chargers. For example, it is impossible to make it from LA to San Francisco in a Leaf if the battery is even the least bit degraded.

GRA
Posts: 9224
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Gasoline, diesel and older hybrids may be banned in parts of East London during parts of work week

Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:49 pm

cmwade77 wrote:
GRA wrote:
Nubo wrote:
It depends I guess on whether you consider the San Francisco bay area to be "northern California", and whether you're looking at straight registration numbers or per-capita. Normalized to comparable sales, the Bay Area leads by far, with rates of over 5% all the way up to 12% for Santa Clara county. LA and SD counties stand at 4%.

page 26: https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/sites/de ... andout.pdf

Indeed. Also see:
ICCT analysis of California top EV cities finds link between EV uptake and many underlying factors
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=22554&p=469877&hilit=mountain+view#p469759

The cities with the highest uptake are in the Bay Area, with Saratoga #1 at 18%, and that's from over a year ago. From that thread:
Saratoga, actually, a higher income Silicon Valley suburb. Other cities that exceed San Jose are almost all high income Silicon Valley suburbs: Los Altos, Los Gatos, Palo Alto, Menlo Park, Fremont, Campbell, Mountain View etc. Per the chart, San Jose's down about 8%: http://bioage.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c4fbe53ef01bb09355f28970d-popup

Socal leads in total number of vehicles due to its much larger population, but not in percentage.

From my vantage point, I am looking strictly at the number of public charging stations available, as there is usually a direct correlation between the number of available stations and the number of EVs on the roads.

Really Northern California, including the areas you mentioned have relatively few EV chargers. For example, it is impossible to make it from LA to San Francisco in a Leaf if the battery is even the least bit degraded.

Uh, that works both ways, and mainly serves to show that a LEAF or any other sub-100 mile BEV is the wrong tool for the job. As to having relatively few EV chargers, while that's true along 5 and 101 between the two metro areas, it definitely isn't true for the Bay Area itself, especially per capita. From the same ICCT report already linked, page 9:
Figure 5 illustrates California cities electric vehicle uptake as compared with public
charging infrastructure per capita
, again highlighting the 30 cities with the highest
electric vehicle sales share. The U.S. and California averages are also shown in the figure
for additional context. As shown, 27 of the 30 cities have higher-than-U.S.-average
public charging, and 24 of those 30 have higher-than-California-average public charging
infrastructure. The 30 high-uptake California cities have, on average, 5 times the
charging infrastructure per capita than the U.S. average
, yet how extensive the cities’
public charging infrastructure is varies greatly. A few smaller cities in the top 30 have
little to no charging infrastructure, while seven cities have over 1,000 charge points per
million residents. Of note, Menlo Park has over 4,000 charge points per million residents
and 14% electric vehicle share and is not shown on the figure. The disparity in these
30 cities’ infrastructure availability largely dissipates when analyzed at the regional
metropolitan area level. For example, 12 of the cities are in the San Jose area, 12 are in
the San Francisco area, 5 are in the Los Angeles area, and 1 is in the Santa Cruz area—all
of which have high charging infrastructure per capita
(see Figure 2 above). The electric
vehicle market grows with its charging infrastructure.

As you can see, the Bay Area leads in both EV uptake and public charging per capita.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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