DarthPuppy
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Re: Plug-In Hybrid Car Sales Grow In France, All-Electric Decreases

Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:32 pm

powersurge wrote: I wonder how many people on this Leaf forum started with hybrids before they took the plunge to the Leaf??

Guilty as charged. Our first toe in the water was a 2008 Highlander Hybrid.

After that experience, I was much more open to the Leaf and the Clarity PHEV.

Interesting idea of having all new cars be either BEV, PHEV or at minimum old-fashioned Hybrid. I can see that being effective, though legally impractical in the U.S. anyway. China and Europe have much better prospects for doing something like that. Perhaps implement the concept for vehicles with an MSRP over $30k. Hybrid does add cost to the purchase; but by only requiring on higher end models, the argument that it would unduly burden those who can't afford it becomes rather moot. Also, when it is a standard feature on the more desirable models, it will become a more popular option on the more affordable models.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Plug-In Hybrid Car Sales Grow In France, All-Electric Decreases

Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:15 pm

Weak hybrids with just engine stop when vehicle stopped is cheap, and helps with larger vehicles.

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GRA
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Re: Plug-In Hybrid Car Sales Grow In France, All-Electric Decreases

Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:08 pm

If hybrid AWD CUVs had been available when I bought my current car (Jan. 2003) and they were significantly more efficient than it is while meeting my other requirements and being within my price range, I would have bought one. As it was, the Escape Hybrid only appeared in the 2005 model year and got 1 mpg less Hwy than my Forester (26 vs. 27), and while it was more efficient around town (26 vs. 21) that's of little concern to me as I do so little local driving. That it also had worse performance than my Forester, especially at altitude, would have likely ruled it out in any case. The 2nd gen hybrid Escape would have been more powerful and also got better mileage (34 City/31 Hwy), so that might have been acceptable depending on price and other features. If I were looking now it would be a choice between the RAV4 and CRV hybrids and the Outlander PHEV, but I'd try and wait to see what PHEV CUV Subaru's going to come out with later this year.

As I don't need to buy a car now, I'll wait until someone makes a ZEV that meets my requirements (including charging/fueling infrastructure).
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

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RegGuheert
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All-Electric Vechicles Continue to Outsell Plug-In Hybrids in France by a 2-to-1 Ratio

Wed May 09, 2018 6:44 pm

Just like they did in January 2018 as discussed in the lead article in this thread, BEVs continue to outsell PHEVs by a 2:1 ratio in France four months into the year:
EV Sales wrote:The 2018 PEV share dropped slightly (-0.2%), to 1.8%, with BEVs alone having 1.2% share.
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GRA
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Re: All-Electric Vechicles Continue to Outsell Plug-In Hybrids in France by a 2-to-1 Ratio

Wed May 09, 2018 7:12 pm

RegGuheert wrote:Just like they did in January 2018 as discussed in the lead article in this thread, BEVs continue to outsell PHEVs by a 2:1 ratio in France four months into the year:
EV Sales wrote:The 2018 PEV share dropped slightly (-0.2%), to 1.8%, with BEVs alone having 1.2% share.

Yes, they do, while growth rates continue to favor the PHEV - from the same article:
The French PEV passenger car market registered 2,833 registrations, up 34% YoY, with Plug-in hybrids continuing to grow faster than all-electrics (PHEVs +46%, BEVs +28%), pulling the market up by 20% in 2018, to 13,725 units.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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RegGuheert
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Re: All-Electric Vechicles Continue to Outsell Plug-In Hybrids in France by a 2-to-1 Ratio

Thu May 10, 2018 12:05 am

GRA wrote:Yes, they do, while growth rates continue to favor the PHEV - from the same article:
Of course that wasn't the point of this thread. The point of the thread was to point out that PHEV sales were climbing while BEV sales were dropping. It happened for one whole month while BEVs still outsold PHEVs by 2:1, just like they do worldwide, but you bring this here insisting this is a trend:
GRA wrote:
RegGuheert wrote:It's good that you were able to locate someplace in the world where that was happening so that you could bring it to the attention of the BEV owners here at MyNissanLEAF.com!

That's quite a feat, since as I posted at the beginning of the month, [url=https://ev-sales.blogspot.com/2018/01/world-top-20-december-2017.html]BEVs outsold PHEVs nearly two-to-one.
Seeing as how similar articles referring to some country or other appear every month or two, it's hardly difficult. More interesting to me is the cause of the shift, when (as it appears to be in this case) it isn't driven by changes in government mandates or subsidies. Is it just a blip or the start of a trend, and if the latter, what's driving the shift in consumer demand? We could use some customer survey data.
To date, you have produced exactly one link to an article showing BEV sales dropping while PHEV sales are falling--this one. And that was for a single month. It's all just lying with statistics to try to support your thesis that PHEVs are more attractive than BEVs.

I'll say it again: globally BEVs will win out over PHEVs long term, just as they do now, because of the extra baggage that PHEVs bring with them. PHEVs are for consumers and corporations not willing to fully commit to BEVs.
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Re: All-Electric Vechicles Continue to Outsell Plug-In Hybrids in France by a 2-to-1 Ratio

Thu May 10, 2018 7:40 am

RegGuheert wrote:I'll say it again: globally BEVs will win out over PHEVs long term, just as they do now, because of the extra baggage that PHEVs bring with them. PHEVs are for consumers and corporations not willing to fully commit to BEVs.


Latest news flash: smallest kids size bicycles with training wheels outsell same size kids bicycles without training wheels.
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RegGuheert
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Re: All-Electric Vechicles Continue to Outsell Plug-In Hybrids in France by a 2-to-1 Ratio

Thu May 10, 2018 10:16 am

WetEV wrote:Latest news flash: smallest kids size bicycles with training wheels outsell same size kids bicycles without training wheels.
It's not a great analogy since training wheels are nearly free and removable.

I don't know anyone who purchased more than one bicycle with training wheels for the same child. The same isn't (and won't be) true for all PHEV owners, but it is likely to be the rule rather than the exception as BEVs and infrastructure improve.
RegGuheert
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10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
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GRA
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Re: All-Electric Vechicles Continue to Outsell Plug-In Hybrids in France by a 2-to-1 Ratio

Fri May 11, 2018 12:35 pm

RegGuheert wrote:
GRA wrote:Yes, they do, while growth rates continue to favor the PHEV - from the same article:
Of course that wasn't the point of this thread. The point of the thread was to point out that PHEV sales were climbing while BEV sales were dropping. It happened for one whole month while BEVs still outsold PHEVs by 2:1, just like they do worldwide, but you bring this here insisting this is a trend:
GRA wrote:
RegGuheert wrote:It's good that you were able to locate someplace in the world where that was happening so that you could bring it to the attention of the BEV owners here at MyNissanLEAF.com!

That's quite a feat, since as I posted at the beginning of the month, [url=https://ev-sales.blogspot.com/2018/01/world-top-20-december-2017.html]BEVs outsold PHEVs nearly two-to-one.
Seeing as how similar articles referring to some country or other appear every month or two, it's hardly difficult. More interesting to me is the cause of the shift, when (as it appears to be in this case) it isn't driven by changes in government mandates or subsidies. Is it just a blip or the start of a trend, and if the latter, what's driving the shift in consumer demand? We could use some customer survey data.
To date, you have produced exactly one link to an article showing BEV sales dropping while PHEV sales are falling--this one. And that was for a single month. It's all just lying with statistics to try to support your thesis that PHEVs are more attractive than BEVs.

I'll say it again: globally BEVs will win out over PHEVs long term, just as they do now, because of the extra baggage that PHEVs bring with them. PHEVs are for consumers and corporations not willing to fully commit to BEVs.

Reg, as I repeatedly pointed out (including in the quote above) and you have just as repeatedly ignored, I was curious to see if there was a trend, and as noted above, there wasn't. What we do see is that PHEV sales growth is generally increasing more rapidly than BEVs in areas where the incentives don't favor one or the other. We've never had any disagreement that BEVs will win out over PHEVs eventually, as PHEVs are an interim technology. But at the moment, as we also agree they are far more attractive to mainstream consumers who are unwilling to make the jump to BEVs for any number of reasons. PHEVs remain, as someone said on MNL a long time back, the gateway drug to BEVs. [Edit]: Went looking and found who first said it here. It was a poster named "Darkstar" who wrote on Nov. 10th, 2011, "The Volt is just a gateway drug to pure EV ownership. :lol: "
Last edited by GRA on Sat May 12, 2018 11:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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Re: Plug-In Hybrid Car Sales Grow In France, All-Electric Decreases

Fri May 11, 2018 7:55 pm

WetEV wrote:
GRA wrote:It's my personal bias that 7 years after production PEVs were introduced here, they've only just reached 1% of U.S. sales despite large continuing subsidies?


I suspect you will be whining about how PEVs are only 4% of USA sales in 4 more years...


He could whine that Wisconsin plug in sales collapsed to 8 units sold in January after the much hyped hybrid and EV tax took effect.

At least those 8 people who bought a plug in now get to pay “their fair share”
and the 90% drop in sales is necessary to ensure everyone pays their “fair share”, right?

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