GRA
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Plug-In Hybrid Car Sales Grow In France, All-Electric Decreases

Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:48 pm

Via IEVS: https://insideevs.com/plug-in-hybrid-car-sales-in-france-grows-while-all-electric-decreases/

The importance of plug-in hybrids in France increases compared to all-electric, as market demand for that type of powertrain notes significant growth.

In January, 2,892 plug-ins were registered (down 2.4%) in France. 956 of them were passenger plug-in hybrids, which increased by 140% year-over-year from just 399.

For comparison, passenger BEV sales decreased 39% to 1,375 (including 89 BMW i3 REx). . . .

The big surprise in January was the Renault ZOE collapse by 61.5% to just 633 new registrations. Apparently, demand is still strong, but the French manufacturer wasn’t able to keep up with orders. On the other hand, the BMW i3 did well with 172 registrations.

Plug-in hybrids were led by the Volvo XC60 T8 Twin Engine (114) and Mercedes GLC (113).

Almost half of the light commercial BEVs were Renault Kangoo Z.E. (274).
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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RegGuheert
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Re: Plug-In Hybrid Car Sales Grow In France, All-Electric Decreases

Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:29 pm

It's good that you were able to locate someplace in the world where that was happening so that you could bring it to the attention of the BEV owners here at MyNissanLEAF.com!

That's quite a feat, since as I posted at the beginning of the month, BEVs outsold PHEVs nearly two-to-one worldwide in 2017.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K miles: Apr 14, 2013, 20K miles (55.7Ah): Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah): Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah): Feb 8, 2017, 50K miles (47.2Ah): Dec 7, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

GRA
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Re: Plug-In Hybrid Car Sales Grow In France, All-Electric Decreases

Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:22 pm

RegGuheert wrote:It's good that you were able to locate someplace in the world where that was happening so that you could bring it to the attention of the BEV owners here at MyNissanLEAF.com!

That's quite a feat, since as I posted at the beginning of the month, [url=https://ev-sales.blogspot.com/2018/01/world-top-20-december-2017.html]BEVs outsold PHEVs nearly two-to-one.

Seeing as how similar articles referring to some country or other appear every month or two, it's hardly difficult. More interesting to me is the cause of the shift, when (as it appears to be in this case) it isn't driven by changes in government mandates or subsidies. Is it just a blip or the start of a trend, and if the latter, what's driving the shift in consumer demand? We could use some customer survey data.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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RegGuheert
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Re: Plug-In Hybrid Car Sales Grow In France, All-Electric Decreases

Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:44 pm

GRA wrote:Seeing as how similar articles referring to some country or other appear every month or two, it's hardly difficult. More interesting to me is the cause of the shift, when (as it appears to be in this case) it isn't driven by changes in government mandates or subsidies. Is it just a blip or the start of a trend, and if the latter, what's driving the shift in consumer demand? We could use some customer survey data.
The supposed shift you are purporting is imaginary.

Let's be very clear here: The percent of PEV sales which are BEVs is INCREASING, not decreasing. Here are the numbers:

In 2016, BEV sales accounted for 64% of global PEV sales while in 2017, the share of BEV sales increased to 66%.
EV Sales on January 31, 2017 wrote:The rise of the Chinese manufacturers has significantly changed the BEV/PHEV breakdown, at this moment BEV's have a 64% take rate, well above the 36% of PHEV's, we have to go back to 2011 to see such a big difference.
EV Sales in January 29, 2018 wrote:Thanks to the influence of the BEV-friendly China, BEVs were up 2% share in 2017, with the BEV/PHEV breakdown ending at 66% BEV vs 34% PHEV, the highest for all-electrics since 2011.
Of course this is also true in your home state of CA, with BEVs taking a 53% and growing share of PEV sales:
InsideEVs on March 4, 2017 wrote:Overall, sales in California grew in 2017:

- BEVs: 51,225 (up 30.4%) at 2.5% market share
- PHEVs: 44,962 (up 29.5%) at 2.2% market share
Simply put, your claim that there is a "trend" where PEV sales are shifting away from BEVs and toward PHEVs is pure BS.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K miles: Apr 14, 2013, 20K miles (55.7Ah): Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah): Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah): Feb 8, 2017, 50K miles (47.2Ah): Dec 7, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

GRA
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Re: Plug-In Hybrid Car Sales Grow In France, All-Electric Decreases

Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:53 pm

RegGuheert wrote:
GRA wrote:Seeing as how similar articles referring to some country or other appear every month or two, it's hardly difficult. More interesting to me is the cause of the shift, when (as it appears to be in this case) it isn't driven by changes in government mandates or subsidies. Is it just a blip or the start of a trend, and if the latter, what's driving the shift in consumer demand? We could use some customer survey data.
The supposed shift you are purporting is imaginary.

The numbers in France are imaginary? As I said, the question is are they just a blip, or do they represent a trend?

RegGuheert wrote:Let's be very clear here: The percent of PEV sales which are BEVs is INCREASING, not decreasing. Here are the numbers:

In 2016, BEV sales accounted for 64% of global PEV sales while in 2017, the share of BEV sales increased to 66%.
EV Sales on January 31, 2017 wrote:The rise of the Chinese manufacturers has significantly changed the BEV/PHEV breakdown, at this moment BEV's have a 64% take rate, well above the 36% of PHEV's, we have to go back to 2011 to see such a big difference.
EV Sales in January 29, 2018 wrote:Thanks to the influence of the BEV-friendly China, BEVs were up 2% share in 2017, with the BEV/PHEV breakdown ending at 66% BEV vs 34% PHEV, the highest for all-electrics since 2011.
Of course this is also true in your home state of CA, with BEVs taking a 53% and growing share of PEV sales:
InsideEVs on March 4, 2017 wrote:Overall, sales in California grew in 2017:

- BEVs: 51,225 (up 30.4%) at 2.5% market share
- PHEVs: 44,962 (up 29.5%) at 2.2% market share
Simply put, your claim that there is a "trend" where PEV sales are shifting away from BEVs and toward PHEVs is pure BS.

Reg, I never claimed there was a trend, I said I wanted to see if there was one (either way), and if so, what was causing it. Of course BEV sales are up in China, as the government there is mandating them. In California, we've now got the Bolt as well as the Model 3 and other Teslas, which can meet more people's needs as their sole car, with more to come. But as far as the general population goes they still don't care, and they continue to buy ICEs - PHEVs strike me as the only way to get them to switch in the near term.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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RegGuheert
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Re: Plug-In Hybrid Car Sales Grow In France, All-Electric Decreases

Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:06 pm

GRA wrote:In California, we've now got the Bolt as well as the Model 3 and other Teslas, which can meet more people's needs as their sole car, with more to come.
So do we.
GRA wrote:But as far as the general population goes they still don't care, and they continue to buy ICEs - PHEVs strike me as the only way to get them to switch in the near term.
Yep. It's all just your personal bias, as I have been pointing out. The facts point to the opposite conclusion.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K miles: Apr 14, 2013, 20K miles (55.7Ah): Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah): Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah): Feb 8, 2017, 50K miles (47.2Ah): Dec 7, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

GRA
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Re: Plug-In Hybrid Car Sales Grow In France, All-Electric Decreases

Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:09 pm

RegGuheert wrote:
GRA wrote:In California, we've now got the Bolt as well as the Model 3 and other Teslas, which can meet more people's needs as their sole car, with more to come.
So do we.
GRA wrote:But as far as the general population goes they still don't care, and they continue to buy ICEs - PHEVs strike me as the only way to get them to switch in the near term.
Yep. It's all just your personal bias, as I have been pointing out. The facts point to the opposite conclusion.

It's my personal bias that 7 years after production PEVs were introduced here, they've only just reached 1% of U.S. sales despite large continuing subsidies?
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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RegGuheert
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Re: Plug-In Hybrid Car Sales Grow In France, All-Electric Decreases

Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:06 pm

GRA wrote:
RegGuheert wrote:
GRA wrote:In California, we've now got the Bolt as well as the Model 3 and other Teslas, which can meet more people's needs as their sole car, with more to come.
So do we.
GRA wrote:But as far as the general population goes they still don't care, and they continue to buy ICEs - PHEVs strike me as the only way to get them to switch in the near term.
Yep. It's all just your personal bias, as I have been pointing out. The facts point to the opposite conclusion.

It's my personal bias that 7 years after production PEVs were introduced here, they've only just reached 1% of U.S. sales despite large continuing subsidies?
No, just read what you wrote again:
GRA wrote:...PHEVs strike me as the only way to get them to switch in the near term.
Again, BEV sales are growing faster than PHEV sales. Your "only way" concept is nonsense.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K miles: Apr 14, 2013, 20K miles (55.7Ah): Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah): Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah): Feb 8, 2017, 50K miles (47.2Ah): Dec 7, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

WetEV
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Re: Plug-In Hybrid Car Sales Grow In France, All-Electric Decreases

Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:49 am

GRA wrote:It's my personal bias that 7 years after production PEVs were introduced here, they've only just reached 1% of U.S. sales despite large continuing subsidies?


I suspect you will be whining about how PEVs are only 4% of USA sales in 4 more years...
WetEV
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GRA
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Re: Plug-In Hybrid Car Sales Grow In France, All-Electric Decreases

Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:26 pm

RegGuheert wrote:
GRA wrote:
RegGuheert wrote:So do we.Yep. It's all just your personal bias, as I have been pointing out. The facts point to the opposite conclusion.

It's my personal bias that 7 years after production PEVs were introduced here, they've only just reached 1% of U.S. sales despite large continuing subsidies?
No, just read what you wrote again:
GRA wrote:...PHEVs strike me as the only way to get them to switch in the near term.
Again, BEV sales are growing faster than PHEV sales. Your "only way" concept is nonsense.

Okay, I should have added the caveat (as I have many times before) "absent government mandates and massive subsidies." Far more people can afford (without subsidies) a $25k Ionic PHEV that can be their sole car, and as long as PHEVs aren't legally banned from driving into an ZEV-only area that they need to access, will likely opt for a PHEV over a more expensive and more limited BEV.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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