GRA
Posts: 9118
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Electricity – Can What Happened in Massachusetts, Happen Elsewhere?

Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:27 pm

Via IEVS: https://insideevs.com/electricity-massachusetts-policy-ev-charging/
The price to fill up a battery might be getting more expensive. While we may want to understand the use of electricity like we do gasoline, ‘per kWh’ rather than ‘per gallon,’ new rules complicate how easy this is becoming.

Two rules coming down from the Massachusetts Department of Public Utilities (DPU) could be followed by other states. In January, a decision to abolish off-peak pricing, and institute demand charges on residential customers became final. If adopted more broadly, each is likely to have the effect of raising costs for owners of electric vehicles, solar, and storage. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

rmay635703
Posts: 464
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:43 pm

Re: Electricity – Can What Happened in Massachusetts, Happen Elsewhere?

Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:09 pm

Mandated profit increases on decreasing electric use at its best.

Good reason to go fully off grid I guess

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 6294
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Electricity – Can What Happened in Massachusetts, Happen Elsewhere?

Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:08 am

Some thoughts on this topic:

1) To answer the question in the InsideEVs title: Of course it can happen elsewhere! In fact, we can be quite sure this will happen nearly everywhere. This situation is very similar to what is happening with the wired telephone system. As more-and-more customers drop off the system, the costs are borne by a smaller-and-smaller customer base, resulting in rapidly-increasing prices. The difference with power is that the owner of the utility is not collecting revenue from the sale of alternative-energy systems as people purchase less electricity or drop off the grid altogether.

2) While electricity demand may have dropped 2.3% in 2017 in the US, it is not entirely clear that this trend will continue. As BEVs become compelling to more-and-more Americans, electricity consumption from those vehicles may offset or even overwhelm the reductions which are coming from conservation and home-based electricity production.

3) My utility is raising our electricity rates, but I consider their approach to be fair. They are in the process of converting from charging customers a rate based almost purely on consumption to one which mirrors their cost structure. Specifically, they are recognizing that their fixed costs equate to about $30/month/meter. As such, they are in the process of gradually increasing their monthly fixed costs from near zero to closer to the actual fixed costs. To wit, four years ago we paid a $5.00/month access fee, the last three years we paid a $10.00/month access fee and now we pay a $14.00/month access fee. I expect to be paying a $20.00/month access fee three years from now and $25.00/month six years from now, et cetera until the access fees match the fixed fees. That approach allows those of us who use the grid as a battery to pay our share in a more fair manner.

4) I would like to see BEVs become attached to the BEV owner's electricity account rather than the electricity being charged to the owner of the meter (at least within the BEV-owner's home electricity grid). I would also like to see on-board BEV chargers allow bi-directional power flow. With the appropriate structure in place, this would allow for BEV customers to participate in "BEV net metering" in a fashion that would allow them to manage their power consumption in a way that better suited the utilities, regardless of where the vehicle is located. (EVSE operators could still charge an access fee, as desired, separate from the electricity charge, since they would not be paying for that.)

5) The continual increases in utility rates combined with the continual decrease in battery prices will eventually result in the loss of the ability of the utility to continue to raise their prices. As rmay635703 said, at some point it will not make sense to stay attached to the grid. That point has likely already come in some locations (such as Hawaii), but the number of places where that will be true will certainly grow over time.

6) IMO, this transition from fully-centralized power to more distributed power will not happen quickly or without a major battle.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

smkettner
Posts: 7172
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Electricity – Can What Happened in Massachusetts, Happen Elsewhere?

Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:04 pm

Solar roof and a couple Power walls should due the trick. Program the system to draw max 10 amps from the utility connection.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
I-Pace on order for end of 2018 delivery

SageBrush
Posts: 2693
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Electricity – Can What Happened in Massachusetts, Happen Elsewhere?

Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:20 pm

smkettner wrote:Solar roof and a couple Power walls should due the trick. Program the system to draw max 10 amps from the utility connection.

No problem ... except perhaps the price of "a couple of Powerwalls."

That said, I'm not afraid of fixed charges and demand pricing. Transparency is always a good thing.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

User avatar
jlv
Posts: 844
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2014
Leaf Number: 424487
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Electricity – Can What Happened in Massachusetts, Happen Elsewhere?

Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:53 am

I didn't know that happened here. I've lived in central Massachusetts for 30 years and we've never had TOU rates with any of the utilities I've dealt with.
'13 SL+Prem (mfg 12/13, leased 4/14, bought 5/17) 32K miTesla S 75D (3/17) 25K mi
Model 3 reservation (still undecided)

Return to “Business / Economy and Politics”