User avatar
IssacZachary
Forum Supporter
Posts: 804
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:57 am
Delivery Date: 15 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 420789
Location: Gunnison, CO, USA

Re: Ford plans to eliminate most passenger cars for US market, will focus on trucks, SUVs and commercial vehicles

Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:41 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:Another thing being overlooked here is the fact that CUVs are essentially station wagons - NOT trucks.

Well you're right about the line not being very clear as to what is what. But I do think there is a fairly good difference between crossovers and station wagons as well as their pros and cons.

Consider this,
the Mazda 6 wagon actually had more passenger and cargo volume than the Mazda CX-7 crossover and was quicker, and got better fuel economy.
from Car and Driver.
2013 SL 50,000 miles.
12 bars until 44,300 miles on June 2, 2017. :D
11 bars current. :)
The Nissan Leaf is the fourth best long distance car for highway driving. >>Best Long Distance Cars<<

LeftieBiker
Posts: 8781
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Ford plans to eliminate most passenger cars for US market, will focus on trucks, SUVs and commercial vehicles

Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:01 pm

Crossovers are in part an attempt to graft modern SUV styling onto a station wagon, and the curving roof that results usually means less cargo room than a similar wagon. They also make CUVs so the passengers sit higher off the road. Despite that, most CUVs are more car than truck.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

RonDawg
Posts: 2788
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:46 am
Delivery Date: 11 Jan 2013
Leaf Number: 027089
Location: SoCal

Re: Ford plans to eliminate most passenger cars for US market, will focus on trucks, SUVs and commercial vehicles

Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:47 pm

LTLFTcomposite wrote:You'll notice Ford is keeping the Focus. There's still a market for cars like Corolla, Sentra, Focus etc with people looking for the cheapest thing possible to drive around, but buyers of a mind to spend a little more are opting for crossovers.


Ford is keeping the Focus name, but the version we will get has been somewhat CUV-ized in the vein of the Subaru CrossTrek or the VW Golf Alltrack:

Image

According to Car and Driver, the Focus Active will actually be the next rung up the price ladder from the EcoSport: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/this- ... -to-the-us

In other words, Ford USA is abandoning the sub $20k car market, as EcoSport starts at $20,995. GM will be the only US manufacturer competing in that space with the $13k Spark (Sonic may not make a return appearance in 2019), otherwise that market is being fully ceded to the Asian manufacturers.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar on 11/21/2015 at 26,435 miles.
Lease returned on 12/23/2015. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL

DarthPuppy
Posts: 619
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:45 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Aug 2013

Re: Ford plans to eliminate most passenger cars for US market, will focus on trucks, SUVs and commercial vehicles

Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:04 pm

RonDawg wrote: otherwise that market is being fully ceded to the Asian manufacturers.


Sad, but so true. R&D budgets on cars often have benefits across multiple models. So now there will be virtually no cross over benefit as there won't be much in common between the Mustang and the Focus.

And now that they've declared their car team the unloved step-child, does anyone really think they are going to have the funding, support and morale necessary to succeed? The end is practically in sight for these two models as well.
'13 Leaf SL
'18 Honda Clarity Touring PHEV

DarthPuppy
Posts: 619
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:45 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Aug 2013

Re: Ford plans to eliminate most passenger cars for US market, will focus on trucks, SUVs and commercial vehicles

Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:36 pm

Also thinking about some of the above observations, I think they may be trying to flout the safety, emissions, and fuel economy regs. They could simply be shifting to producing 'cars' that they will classify as "CUVs" and therefore are subject to less stringent restrictions as they will list them as part of the light truck category. :x
'13 Leaf SL
'18 Honda Clarity Touring PHEV

RonDawg
Posts: 2788
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:46 am
Delivery Date: 11 Jan 2013
Leaf Number: 027089
Location: SoCal

Re: Ford plans to eliminate most passenger cars for US market, will focus on trucks, SUVs and commercial vehicles

Tue May 01, 2018 7:09 am

DarthPuppy wrote:Also thinking about some of the above observations, I think they may be trying to flout the safety, emissions, and fuel economy regs. They could simply be shifting to producing 'cars' that they will classify as "CUVs" and therefore are subject to less stringent restrictions as they will list them as part of the light truck category. :x


No doubt. That's why Chrysler (pre-Fiat) classified the PT Cruiser and the Dodge Magnum as SUV's :roll: The latter is especially laughable as it's literally a station wagon version of the Chrysler 300, and in fact it was sold outside North America as the Chrysler 300C Touring, with the 300's front end treatment and interior appointments but otherwise the Magnum's body shell.

Image
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar on 11/21/2015 at 26,435 miles.
Lease returned on 12/23/2015. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL

User avatar
IssacZachary
Forum Supporter
Posts: 804
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:57 am
Delivery Date: 15 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 420789
Location: Gunnison, CO, USA

Re: Ford plans to eliminate most passenger cars for US market, will focus on trucks, SUVs and commercial vehicles

Tue May 01, 2018 5:53 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:Crossovers are in part an attempt to graft modern SUV styling onto a station wagon, and the curving roof that results usually means less cargo room than a similar wagon. They also make CUVs so the passengers sit higher off the road. Despite that, most CUVs are more car than truck.

True. But you'd be amazed at what else is going from truck to car. Vans for an example. The only truck chasis van now is the Chevy Express (also called the GM Savana). The Ford Transit, Dodge Promaster and Mercedes Sprinter are all uni-body car type chasis and suspensions.

But don't let the structural design fool you. The main energy loss on any vehicle is the aerodynamic drag. If you take a car, shape it like a less aerodynamic SUV and then increase the ride height you are killing the efficiency whether it's a uni-body or a frame chasis. But simply taking a hatchback and making it longer hardly affects air drag.
2013 SL 50,000 miles.
12 bars until 44,300 miles on June 2, 2017. :D
11 bars current. :)
The Nissan Leaf is the fourth best long distance car for highway driving. >>Best Long Distance Cars<<

RonDawg
Posts: 2788
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:46 am
Delivery Date: 11 Jan 2013
Leaf Number: 027089
Location: SoCal

Re: Ford plans to eliminate most passenger cars for US market, will focus on trucks, SUVs and commercial vehicles

Wed May 02, 2018 12:54 pm

IssacZachary wrote:But you'd be amazed at what else is going from truck to car. Vans for an example. The only truck chasis van now is the Chevy Express (also called the GM Savana). The Ford Transit, Dodge Promaster and Mercedes Sprinter are all uni-body car type chasis and suspensions.


Unibody construction is not new for vans, not even American vans. The Dodge "Tradesman" and "Sportsman" B-series vans built from 1971 to 2003 are unibody. Same with the first and second generation Ford Econolines.

And don't mistake "unibody" for "car-like" as they are not the same. The vans I mentioned above do NOT have a car-like drive quality to them at all. Conversely, there have been many body-on-frame luxury cars (the Lincoln Town Car being the last in production) with smooth rides.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar on 11/21/2015 at 26,435 miles.
Lease returned on 12/23/2015. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL

User avatar
IssacZachary
Forum Supporter
Posts: 804
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:57 am
Delivery Date: 15 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 420789
Location: Gunnison, CO, USA

Re: Ford plans to eliminate most passenger cars for US market, will focus on trucks, SUVs and commercial vehicles

Mon May 14, 2018 6:08 pm

RonDawg wrote:Unibody construction is not new for vans, not even American vans. The Dodge "Tradesman" and "Sportsman" B-series vans built from 1971 to 2003 are unibody. Same with the first and second generation Ford Econolines.

And don't mistake "unibody" for "car-like" as they are not the same. The vans I mentioned above do NOT have a car-like drive quality to them at all. Conversely, there have been many body-on-frame luxury cars (the Lincoln Town Car being the last in production) with smooth rides.

That's really the whole point. Similarities don't make vehicles the same. Crossovers aren't really just taller station wagons. Taller has a big aerodynamic penalty. There are guys making their gasoline powered cars get over 100mpg just by improving the aerodynamics. (e.g. AeroCivic.) it seems as engine efficiency improves the general population is happy with 25-30mpg by making that car taller and less aerodynamic, counteracting any improvement in engine efficiency. Trying to sell bigger taller cars as SUV's with car-like fuel economy is a scam in my opinion.

One of the big reasons I got my Leaf is I wanted a car that gets better fuel economy than my 1985 Golf diesel. Yes, that car spews thick clouds of black death, but it also gets over 50mpg even after 500,000 miles! It's 2018 for crying out loud and people still think a 30mpg crossover that's going to last 200,000 is acceptable! The Aptera got 125mpg. The VW XL1 got 250mpg. And yet when any other car starts to get more than 30, it's almost like people demand that the car be made bigger and heavier so that it gets less than the 30mpg mark again or they will look for a bigger and heavier one that does!
2013 SL 50,000 miles.
12 bars until 44,300 miles on June 2, 2017. :D
11 bars current. :)
The Nissan Leaf is the fourth best long distance car for highway driving. >>Best Long Distance Cars<<

Return to “Business / Economy and Politics”