GRA
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IEVS: Gas Stations Will Adapt To Benefit From Electric Vehicles

Sat May 19, 2018 4:51 pm

https://insideevs.com/gas-stations-benefit-electric-vehicles/

. . . Over the past couple of decades, the business of selling fuel to drivers has radically changed. In the US, the iconic “filling station,” where a rumpled mechanic was on hand to check your oil and fix a flat, and the culinary selection was limited to a Coke machine and bags of stale peanuts, has been replaced by a mini-supermarket, with twenty touchscreen-equipped gas pumps and 500 flavors of designer coffee.

Even as retail fuel outlets have evolved, their number has been declining for decades. A recent article in Sky News notes that since 1970, the number of stand-alone petrol stations in the UK has shrunk by 75%. In Japan, the number of EV charging points surpassed the number of gas stations in 2015.

One reason for the transformation of the retail gas business is that margins on selling fuel are razor-thin. Gas is increasingly seen as a loss leader to attract customers who will spend money on drinks and snacks. Of course, that’s exactly how EV charging is seen by many industry observers, so it makes perfect sense that some oil purveyors (again, mostly European brands so far) are installing chargers at their retail locations.

Last year, Shell began installing EV charging points at gas stations (“forecourts” to our British mates) in the Netherlands and the UK (in partnership with Dutch charging operator Allego), as well as in Norway and the Philippines. It has also acquired Dutch charging network operator NewMotion, which manages over 30,000 charging points in 25 European countries.

BP, the dominant petrol retailer in the UK, recently acquired a stake in FreeWire, a developer of mobile rapid charging systems. Motor Fuel Group, the UK’s second-largest independent operator of forecourts, also has plans to offer fast charging. . . .

Why is Europe leading the way when it comes to charging at the gas station? Demographics may be one reason: in contrast to the US, where suburban drivers charge at home, many UK drivers (perhaps up to 80%, according to research by National Grid) live in flats with no assigned parking spaces and must park their cars on the street. This is also the case in China, and in dense urban areas around the world. If EVs are to become a viable option for all drivers, some solution to this dilemma must be found, and rapid charging at public locations could be an option. . . .

Until lots of 800 - 1,000V BEVs arrive, the difference in dwell time and lack of parking space at the typical gas station strike me as an argument against BEVs that will be difficult to overcome. 150kW QCs will work for some, but I think it will take the more powerful ones to make this a viable business model - how many people want to spend 20-30 minutes at a gas station? Restaurants and other retail businesses, theaters etc. strike me as better venues for now.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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RegGuheert
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Re: IEVS: Gas Stations Will Adapt To Benefit From Electric Vehicles

Mon May 21, 2018 4:41 am

GRA wrote:Restaurants and other retail businesses, theaters etc. strike me as better venues for now.
Agreed.

Gas stations are designed to do business during a 5-minute stop. They are not well-suited for BEV charging, even quick charging. Does that mean that BEVs are doomed? Hardly. BEV charging does not require the handling of hazmats, so there is little to restrict where EVSEs and/or quick chargers can be located. So what it really means is that gas stations will struggle for survival as sales of BEVs ramp up, just as they did before the advent of BEVs.

So, where will personal BEVs charge? I think they will charge wherever people tend to spend significant amounts of time frequently. In order of attractiveness:

1) Home
2) Work
3) School
4) Rest stops
5) Restaurants
6) Shopping centers
7) Movie houses
8) Coffee shops
9) Dedicated charging stations

I believe all of these options will ramp up, but each will require some sort of business model to make it attractive. Home charging is already attractive, but the others will likely each have a range of business models which work for different locations.
RegGuheert
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WetEV
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Re: IEVS: Gas Stations Will Adapt To Benefit From Electric Vehicles

Mon May 21, 2018 7:12 am

RegGuheert wrote:So, where will personal BEVs charge? I think they will charge wherever people tend to spend significant amounts of time frequently. In order of attractiveness:

1) Home
2) Work
3) School
4) Rest stops
5) Restaurants
6) Shopping centers
7) Movie houses
8) Coffee shops
9) Dedicated charging stations



Hotels
Airports and airport parking lots.

Some of the places on your list are less likely as people might spend significant amounts of time, but are unlikely to have driven far... Movie houses and local shopping centers seem the most impacted.
WetEV
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armmynissanleaf
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Re: IEVS: Gas Stations Will Adapt To Benefit From Electric Vehicles

Mon May 21, 2018 9:32 am

Yes. I also think that in the future Gas stations will have to change. And even may be completely be gone if EV range reaches to 1000+ miles. Which I think will be possible. Perhaps in 20-30 years.
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GRA
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Re: IEVS: Gas Stations Will Adapt To Benefit From Electric Vehicles

Mon May 21, 2018 5:05 pm

WetEV wrote:
RegGuheert wrote:So, where will personal BEVs charge? I think they will charge wherever people tend to spend significant amounts of time frequently. In order of attractiveness:

1) Home
2) Work
3) School
4) Rest stops
5) Restaurants
6) Shopping centers
7) Movie houses
8) Coffee shops
9) Dedicated charging stations


Hotels
Airports and airport parking lots.

Some of the places on your list are less likely as people might spend significant amounts of time, but are unlikely to have driven far... Movie houses and local shopping centers seem the most impacted.

Thinking about it I agree, at least for those who have home or workplace charging, but as the article points out (as have I), many people don't. I can see shopping center QCs for them. Restaurants along major transportation corridors are obvious, as Tesla has already done. Public/private lots and garages in business districts can serve both work and recreation venues depending on the time of day, with a mix of L2/QC.

Schools, like work and home, involve longer dwell times and mostly serve a local clientele, so L2 is the way to go there. A local college has a bunch of Chargepoint dual-head L2s, scattered in every campus parking lot. The fact that they're free (you do have to pay for parking during the week) bothers me, as that's tuition money that could be going for other things.

Certainly, L2s have no business at fast food restaurants, which is where a lot of Blink L2s were installed locally. Hotels and airport parking should be L2s (L1s for long-term airport parking), with QCs for cell phone waiting areas.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

DarthPuppy
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Re: IEVS: Gas Stations Will Adapt To Benefit From Electric Vehicles

Mon May 21, 2018 8:41 pm

Lot of good points in the above posts.

One personally disturbing point in the article. Peanuts go stale?

Seriously though, we really do need to get more publicly available charging infrastructure deployed. For L2, any place with an average parking time of 30 minutes or longer makes sense. These aren't likely to be destinations that require long drives to get to and are likely to be daisy chained in a series of errands that involve multiple stops and charge opportunities. But of course, we need the business model to charge based on minutes used or power taken, not $x for a connection up to 1 hour. There have been times a charge would have been nice but I only had about 20 minutes of time available and the station was going to charge for an hour if I hooked up at all.
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GRA
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Re: IEVS: Gas Stations Will Adapt To Benefit From Electric Vehicles

Tue May 22, 2018 5:56 pm

Related, via IEVS:
BP Invests In StoreDot – Firm Promises Charging As Quick As Fueling
https://insideevs.com/bp-invests-in-storedot-firm-promises-charging-as-quick-as-fueling/

BP Ventures, the investment arm of the oil major BP, invested $20 million in Israeli-based StoreDot, which promises batteries capable of ultra-fast charging in 5-minutes.

StoreDot has been hinting at its breakthrough batteries for several years now (see news from 2015 and from 2017), and finally this year is securing some serious money.

Earlier this year, Daimler, some Chinese banks, as well as an existing investor – Samsung Ventures, and new ones like TDK Corporation, together invested roughly $60 million in the company. . . .

StoreDot announced that in 2019 it will introduce the flash batteries for mobile devices. We assume that electric cars will require more time to commercialize. . . .

Now that would make sense. We'll see if this ever comes to pass.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

DarthPuppy
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Re: IEVS: Gas Stations Will Adapt To Benefit From Electric Vehicles

Tue May 22, 2018 8:25 pm

I'm a bit suspicious of BP investing in a breakthrough battery tech.

I vaguely recall hearing a story back in the late 90's or early 00's that there was a battery breakthrough. But the company was bought by an oil company that then declined to license it for automotive uses. They clearly bought it to block EVs so they could continue to sell oil for transportation needs. It wouldn't surprise me if this was the same tactic being used.
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GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: IEVS: Gas Stations Will Adapt To Benefit From Electric Vehicles

Wed May 23, 2018 5:40 pm

DarthPuppy wrote:I'm a bit suspicious of BP investing in a breakthrough battery tech.

I vaguely recall hearing a story back in the late 90's or early 00's that there was a battery breakthrough. But the company was bought by an oil company that then declined to license it for automotive uses. They clearly bought it to block EVs so they could continue to sell oil for transportation needs. It wouldn't surprise me if this was the same tactic being used.

More often it's gone the other way. Shell, Arco and BP all had PV divisions, but sold them because they were too small. Exxon developed and commercialized the first lithium (primary) batteries, then sold the division (in the early '90s? when the oil majors were hurting), as it was only worth about $50m/yr in revenue and they didn't think it was worth their time to bother with anything under about $1b/yr. Energy companies will sell any energy that's profitable enough for them. Most energy company conspiracy theories should be treated with the skepticism they deserve, like those regarding miracle carburetors that run on water.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

DarthPuppy
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Re: IEVS: Gas Stations Will Adapt To Benefit From Electric Vehicles

Wed May 23, 2018 5:49 pm

Ok. I could very well be wrong and fell for one of those conspiracy theories. I figure those on this site would be more plugged into on a controversy like that so if people here aren't familiar with it, then it probably wasn't the case.
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