Free charger == legal?

I don't think we've talked about this yet -

Aren't the free chargers actually being paid for with US Government funds? If so - how can it possibly be legal to give a $2500 to one citizen and not give it to another?

Any lawyers in the crowd?

LakeLeaf said:

I don't think we've talked about this yet -

Aren't the free chargers actually being paid for with US Government funds? If so - how can it possibly be legal to give a $2500 to one citizen and not give it to another?

Any lawyers in the crowd?

Click to expand...

They're not 'gifts' they're 'loaned' in order to conduct a Department of Energy study. Other posts here have suggested at the end of the study one either has to buy the EVSE or send it back.

LakeLeaf said:

I don't think we've talked about this yet -

Aren't the free chargers actually being paid for with US Government funds? If so - how can it possibly be legal to give a $2500 to one citizen and not give it to another?

Any lawyers in the crowd?

Click to expand...

It is not free. We are participating in a study and sharing our charging data. I'd say the government is getting all that data quite cheap - we should actually be getting paid :twisted:

It just seems like an interesting way to spend government money.

If the car has no L3 charger - "rollout areas" really don't mean a thing - virtually everyone will be charging overnight at their place of residence. Having a couple L2 public chargers scattered around isn't going to make or break the rollout. It seems, especially since it is our money, that it really should have been done on a first come, first serve basis - or something similarly democratic rather then some arbitrary geographical areas which don't really differ at all from the rest of the country. No?

LakeLeaf said:

No?

Click to expand...

No. Why is the govt spending billions on sugar cane subsidy ? We can't grow it here ...

Why do some southern states get more fed money than they send in taxes ?

Why is every "ear mark" spent in exactly one city ? That surely can't be legal. How about high speed train in only some places ?

etc. etc.

From a business perspective...no. A purchase means warranty and service - and that means dealerships with trained techs, tools, docs, and charging infrastructure.

According to the Nissan presentations as well as stuff from DOE presentations, EV marketing is primarily focused at pockets of hybrid owners. In addition, Nissan has 'greased the skids' in these and additional areas to ensure there's city support - permitting, inspections for EVSE - and area tax breaks/incentives if possible.

The 'free' charge points are from two separate pockets of money - DOE study cash and stimulus money. The DOE gets info which can be used by the government and industry to get better at transitioning us off oil. There's also plenty of tax input to the states and Fed from the installations (sales, payroll, fuel) plus new hires to support the EVSE installs. Then there's the next tier 'stimulus' - fuel sales, vehicle service, office supplies, etc. that increase with the new levels of activity in the businesses involved.

At the end of the day, one can still get an address in a roll-out area, buy a car, and ship it home so the roll-out areas really isn't a limitation for the creative owner-wannabe.

Andy

LakeLeaf said:

If the car has no L3 charger - "rollout areas" really don't mean a thing - virtually everyone will be charging overnight at their place of residence. Having a couple L2 public chargers scattered around isn't going to make or break the rollout. It seems, especially since it is our money, that it really should have been done on a first come, first serve basis - or something similarly democratic rather then some arbitrary geographical areas which don't really differ at all from the rest of the country. No?

Click to expand...

The word I got from the Leaf display at Plug-in 2010 tonight was that SL trim Leafs in EV Project areas would have L3 charging ports. SV trim would not have them anywhere. In a few cases people ordering SL outside an EV Project area might be able to get L3 support as an option. The reasoning they stressed was that they wanted to have a minimum number of "useless" ports installed in case the standard went against what they are installing.

planet4ever said:

LakeLeaf said:

If the car has no L3 charger - "rollout areas" really don't mean a thing - virtually everyone will be charging overnight at their place of residence. Having a couple L2 public chargers scattered around isn't going to make or break the rollout. It seems, especially since it is our money, that it really should have been done on a first come, first serve basis - or something similarly democratic rather then some arbitrary geographical areas which don't really differ at all from the rest of the country. No?

Click to expand...

The word I got from the Leaf display at Plug-in 2010 tonight was that SL trim Leafs in EV Project areas would have L3 charging ports. SV trim would not have them anywhere. In a few cases people ordering SL outside an EV Project area might be able to get L3 support as an option. The reasoning they stressed was that they wanted to have a minimum number of "useless" ports installed in case the standard went against what they are installing.

Click to expand...

I was told the Same here in Santa Barbara. And The SL that I was allowed to check out just before they Washed it and handed over to its new owner had the L3 Port.

evnow said:

LakeLeaf said:

I don't think we've talked about this yet -

Aren't the free chargers actually being paid for with US Government funds? If so - how can it possibly be legal to give a $2500 to one citizen and not give it to another?

Any lawyers in the crowd?

Click to expand...

It is not free. We are participating in a study and sharing our charging data. I'd say the government is getting all that data quite cheap - we should actually be getting paid :twisted:

Click to expand...

Ummm.. We are getting paid. It's free f'n charger and install.

AndyH said:

They're not 'gifts' they're 'loaned' in order to conduct a Department of Energy study. Other posts here have suggested at the end of the study one either has to buy the EVSE or send it back.

Click to expand...

Actually, they're 'loaned' until Dec., 2012, then we can keep them for no charge. That's erroneous info you've read or received.

Hello,
We will end up with the chargers at the end of the survey because the cost of recovering them exceeds their worth. One shot fixed overhead expense then bail in true gov fashion.

LakeLeaf said:

If so - how can it possibly be legal to give a $2500 to one citizen and not give it to another?

Click to expand...

What exact law is this breaking ?

You should remember that they are getting usage data in return. That is the contract.

LEAFfan said:

AndyH said:

They're not 'gifts' they're 'loaned' in order to conduct a Department of Energy study. Other posts here have suggested at the end of the study one either has to buy the EVSE or send it back.

Click to expand...

Actually, they're 'loaned' until Dec., 2012, then we can keep them for no charge. That's erroneous info you've read or received.

Click to expand...

It would make more sense if this thread hadn't been brought back from the dead.
Back in the dark ages when this was originally written we were still figuring out exactly what the plan was. You agree though that they're loaned until ownership transfers at the end of the eval, yes?
:lol:

LakeLeaf said:

I don't think we've talked about this yet -

Aren't the free chargers actually being paid for with US Government funds? If so - how can it possibly be legal to give a $2500 to one citizen and not give it to another?

Click to expand...

Slow news day for you?

How about the $7500 tax credit that I'm getting for my LEAF? How about the 50% tax credit on EVSE installation cost? Surely that can't be legal either, by your argument?

LakeLeaf said:

I don't think we've talked about this yet -

Aren't the free chargers actually being paid for with US Government funds? If so - how can it possibly be legal to give a $2500 to one citizen and not give it to another?

Any lawyers in the crowd?

Click to expand...

What kind of entitlement nonsense is this?
Should we all get the president's salary also?

How can one person got something that other don't? I do not have kids why do people who do get paid money/credits for having them? That not fair.

If you want kids have them if you want them why is my tax money go to raise your kids. If you can't afford kids don't have them
:mrgreen:

Gonewild said:

How can one person got something that other don't? I do not have kids why do people who do get paid money/credits for having them? That not fair.

Click to expand...

Most egragious of subsidies is the one given to farmers not to grow a particular crop.

evnow said:

Gonewild said:

How can one person got something that other don't? I do not have kids why do people who do get paid money/credits for having them? That not fair.

Click to expand...

Most egragious of subsidies is the one given to farmers not to grow a particular crop.

Click to expand...

Sent me the check. I am not growing the crop either or any crop for that matter.

Can I get a payment for NOT buying a GM vehicle? :lol:

smkettner said:

Sent me the check. I am not growing the crop either or any crop for that matter.

Click to expand...

You need to build the house in a right place to get the "direct pay" farm subsidy.

BTW, many "tea party" reps make a lot of money on farm subsidies including Michele Bachmann (some $280,000 according to NYT).