Does the Leaf appeal to conservatives?

I think it should, but I wonder... am I alone here?

LTLFTcomposite said:

I think it should, but I wonder... am I alone here?

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According to Nissan 35% chose "national security" as the reason for getting a Leaf. I guess some of them are conservatives ? BTW, there are a lot of environmental conservatives too - just not that many in the US.

Does "fiscal conservative / social moderate-to-liberal but definitely not neo-con" count?

As an aside...watched Garbage Warrior a few nights back during which the very 'out there' sustainable housing designer put on a suit to do battle with the New Mexico government. He was coached before addressing the conservative politicians to not use the words 'global warming' or 'climate change' in any sentence - but that energy security and independence from foreign oil were the appropriate 'code words' for this fear-based audience.

So yes - I expect the Leaf will appear to conservatives as long as the correct language is used to sell the benefits of EVs.

I'd like to see the EV subsidy phased out, but at the same time a substantial % of the military budget should be funded by taxes on oil. Not a fan of all this cost shifting.

no subsidy, no purchase for many individuals. Much better to remove the
oil industry subsidies...... Oh yea, and if we had been made to pay for both
of these wars, we would have been out of both of them long ago.

LTLFTcomposite said:

I'd like to see the EV subsidy phased out, but at the same time a substantial % of the military budget should be funded by taxes on oil. Not a fan of all this cost shifting.

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Can't agree on this. I'd like to see more EV incentives and a real push by government to get us moving in a different energy direction. Absolutely cut all the subsidies and breaks given to the oil, coal, and natural gas industry - if they can't make it on their own after 100 years they deserve to fail. Use that 'new found' cash to fund the incentives, expand the power grid, and plant more wind and solar. The military does a lot more than camp in the middle east. I don't think that making a strong oil=military link (in thought or cash flow) is the best precedent to set and/or reinforce.

This 'conservative' writer just plain misses the whole point of why Nissan and other mfg's realize that ICE based cars will eventually run out of gas and they all need to start looking and making cars with alternative fuels (of course they say get a diesel at the very end if you need higher mileage) ... hopefully just a fringe opinion who just doesn't get it. I do agree that an 'average' family making $38K (according to the article) is more than likely not a target for these first-gen EV's; but as with anything else the more popular and widespread things get typically the price goes down (anyone remember how expensive the first PC's or LED calculators were?) and 'early adopters' always will pay a higher price -- I think the Volt is too high at $41K (or $45K loaded) as I wouldn't use it as my primary car as well as it has an ICE-based generator on board that I don't need -- if other full EV's come out before the LEAF gets to my area (part of the 36 remaining state group) I'll consider them if they end up in the same price range as the LEAF (doubtful at this point but you never know). I'm sure we'll see many similar debates before either car hits the road --

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...shock-chevy-volt-vs-nissan-leaf-99645004.html

Wow. Thanks for the link. This guy really doesn't get it and his article is way off the mark in so many areas. With messengers like this, EVs will never take off.

I've noticed folks on this and other forums try to calculate return on investment for an EV. Toss in the price of a used Prius or a Fit or an Aveo, use some average distance traveled per year, toss in today's price of gasoline (at the pump only), and Americans will continue to buy based on 'price' - the same 'skill-set' that brings them to WalMart week after week.

Part of the battle, from a more political position now, is that Conservative politics is closely tied with company owners/leadership while Democrats are more closely tied to labor/workforce. The politicians support the large corporations that support them - and in our world today the petroleum, petrochemical, transportation, and industrial farm industries are so intertwined that anything that's seen to threaten one brings the 'allies' into battle. The conservative/Conservative/petro-etc side of the world is in deep denial of climate change and peak oil as a matter of principle as accepting those proves they are dinosaurs drawing their last gasping breaths.

The only way I can see making a proper return on investment calc for ICE VS. EV is to include the real costs of fuel and emissions - including effects on health (how do we price the miscarriage or cancer rate around refineries?), costs of pollution (GHG at least), cost of subsidies, and yes - military costs to secure both the source and the transport fleet.

To sell EVs and hybrids to the conservative crowd we have to show the full costs of the choices, not just the sticker price. If we can easily explain the true costs, EVs and hybrids become the no-brainer.

I usually avoid political discussion on technical forums, but this is related to EV strategy so I will weigh in.

Conservatives, as a group, hate the Leaf. They would like to strangle it in the crib, and quickly. They hate the Volt even more, if that is possible. Any tour through the conservative blogs or the Wall Street Journal on-line will bring you in contact with a snarling horde of anti-EV sentiment.

This is because they hate subsidies and communal action that requires government intervention, unless it is military.

What they neglect to understand is that the current system is itself a beneficiary of many subsidies, they are just less explicit.

Hopefully, the EVs will be able to get off the ground before the subsidies are withdrawn and the critical mass will be built to get us off the oil train.

We will see.

sjfotos said:

Conservatives, as a group, hate the Leaf. They would like to strangle it in the crib, and quickly. They hate the Volt even more, if that is possible. Any tour through the conservative blogs or the Wall Street Journal on-line will bring you in contact with a snarling horde of anti-EV sentiment.

This is because they hate subsidies and communal action that requires government intervention, unless it is military.

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Aint THAT the truth!! :evil:

sjfotos said:

What they neglect to understand is that the current system is itself a beneficiary of many subsidies, they are just less explicit.

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And they are indirectly the recipients of such. But, hypocrits never seem to notice those little distinctions, do they?

sjfotos said:

Hopefully, the EVs will be able to get off the ground before the subsidies are withdrawn and the critical mass will be built to get us off the oil train.

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+1000

If you're going to talk about hypocrisy, look no further than Al "do as I say not as I do" Gore.

sjfotos said:

Conservatives, as a group, hate the Leaf.

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Wow.

LTLFTcomposite said:

sjfotos said:

Conservatives, as a group, hate the Leaf.

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Wow.

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Hey, I am just reporting what I read. I am out on many blogs and investment forums defending the Leaf.....and i get continuously hammered as a subsidy loving commie destroyer of market capitalism, which is odd as my career was in Corporate Accounting.

I don't have some huge political ax to grind, it is just that subsidies of any kind get most conservatives all riled up.

But how can you extend that to the Leaf?

The question is how do conservatives feel about the Leaf,
not how do they feel about the Leaf subsidy.

I approve of the Leaf, not of the subsidy. I'm waaay far right.

Dav said:

But how can you extend that to the Leaf?

The question is how do conservatives feel about the Leaf,
not how do they feel about the Leaf subsidy.

I approve of the Leaf, not of the subsidy. I'm waaay far right.

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Well as a Republican and middle of the road conservative I think your just pushing bias crap. I have a solar home and I am going to buy the leaf. I am not some left wing tree hugger. I just buy things with the future in mind. I ask myself what is the price for say gas or electric in the future 10 years down the road. I drive near 80 miles to work and back and in 5 years at current gas prices I will save about $9,000. So the leaf over 10 years will only cost what I would have paid for a ICE Honda Fit. I am in to new high tech stuff and this is going to be my new toy.

LTLFTcomposite said:

If you're going to talk about hypocrisy, look no further than Al "do as I say not as I do" Gore.

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The truth is the truth even if told by a liar.

(no - I'm not saying he's a liar - I'm simply saying that it's a very common sales and/or (dare I say neocon?) tactic to try to discredit the message by throwing rocks at the messenger. What Al Gore did was tell the SAME story that science has been saying for more than 30 years - he communicated it to the masses better than the PhDs in journals that the public doesn't read.)

LTLFTcomposite said:

If you're going to talk about hypocrisy, look no further than Al "do as I say not as I do" Gore.

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Hmmm ... like what ? Worse than Rush or Vitter ?

Thanks to each of you! I know many other far-right 'military-industrial complex' types that spend their time building electric bikes and helping folks dump ICE in their lives. I can guarantee that some of the most strident oil haters are folks involved in the process of protecting it...

One thing we're showing here is there's a huge difference between the political message and the desires of real people from a range of views of the world.

Dav said:

The question is how do conservatives feel about the Leaf,
not how do they feel about the Leaf subsidy.

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Well, you are just splitting hair.

They hate Leaf because of subsidy. And probably because Nissan is pushing it as a "zero emission" vehicle - while AGW is a taboo for Republicans (who are mostly mistaken to be conservatives in this country).

ps : You can see a lot of Leaf hating & yet subsidy embracing rightwingers in gm-volt blog. Infact they keep dissing Obama - ignoring the fact that without him GM would be bankrupt today.

evnow said:

LTLFTcomposite said:

If you're going to talk about hypocrisy, look no further than Al "do as I say not as I do" Gore.

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Hmmm ... like what ? Worse than Rush or Vitter ?

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While I consider myself a conservative I think RL is unenlightened on a number of subjects. But at least while he's out flying around on a G5 he isn't critiquing everyone else'e carbon footprint.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/house.asp