Crash-tests?

Most open issues regarding the Leaf are getting clarified, but how about safety...Does anyone know when crash-test results will be available?
Or are there any estimates of it's crash-worthiness?

I do not believe that Nissan has released any crash test results performed by IIHS (www.iihs.org) or any other external organization. This does concern me.

I sure it will test out fine

it will be a shame to watch a perfectly good Leaf get destroyed.

This car has what 6-10 air bags. It will be like rolling inside a ball as long as the top does not get cut off.

It's tough for insurance companies to set rates for this car without any published crash test results.

Without the results - do insurance companies have to assume the worst case damage situation for something like a low speed crash, or do they factor the quality of other cars by this manufacturer?

In theory, the typical EV layout lends itself to better distribution of structure around the occupants. With the batteries central in the floor, the primary safety structure (seating bubble) can be easily tweaked to deform just about any way an engineer could want. I am very optimistic about this.

Another topic we've covered in another thread.

Check out the Nissan briefing papers in the Reference Documents thread - there are pictures of crash-tested Leafs showing both body and battery box integrity.

AndyH said:

Another topic we've covered in another thread.

Check out the Nissan briefing papers in the Reference Documents thread - there are pictures of crash-tested Leafs showing both body and battery box integrity.

Click to expand...

Which thread (title)? We will be toting two kids around so any info is helpful.

Looked through all the documents in the Reference section but did not see a crash test of the leaf. There is a small image of a Versa mule after a frontal offset test but I did not see anything on the Leaf structure.

AndyH - I can not find that info either. Could you possibly point directly to the info?

What is easy to find out on the internets though is how other EV manufacturers are now touting their dedication to safety. Maybe because Nissan has not focused on it in the Leaf marketing? For examples of this see the recent Coda launch info, as well as the Mercedes electric A-type and the Saab 9-3 electric announcements. Even the 2012 Ford Focus and its new airbag technology can serve as an example as it will come in an electric version.

It's the best I've seen so far.

Considering the Leaf is very similar to a bit larger Versa, there's a good chance that the crash info applies. If it was way out of bounds, I wouldn't expect Nissan to have smashed mules.

This is really becoming an issue for me as well. I should be ordering in a few weeks and I cannot possibly order without seeing the crash test info. I hope Nissan is listening!

The main issue here (as most cars now are pretty safe) is what the battery-pack does if it is seriously damaged. For example, if the battery is "smashed" and short circuits, maybe even by metal going through it - what does it do?

What I would like to see is a video showing that the batteries do this:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnzIBSIKcpQ[/youtube] (This shows A123's battery)

and not this:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f30fBFitkSM[/youtube] (A standard battery)


(I'm sure that Nissan has considered this, by the way.)

That "standard LiIon" cell is lithium cobalt - think Laptop and Tesla here.

The A123 cell is Lithium iron phosphate. The Leaf is a flavor of lithium manganese. These two are the 'safe' lithium chemistries.

That being said, even newer lithium cobalt are much safer. Consider these clips from a few months back with the latest varieties of LiCo and other cells. It took a LOT more than just the nail penetration to get these cells to go off - like taking 4V cells to 15V, then adding heat...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dree0rTr1HM[/youtube]

AndyH said:

That "standard LiIon" cell is lithium cobalt - think Laptop and Tesla here.

The A123 cell is Lithium iron phosphate. The Leaf is a flavor of lithium manganese. These two are the 'safe' lithium chemistries.

That being said, even newer lithium cobalt are much safer. Consider these clips from a few months back with the latest varieties of LiCo and other cells. It took a LOT more than just the nail penetration to get these cells to go off - like taking 4V cells to 15V, then adding heat...

Click to expand...

What a nice video! :mrgreen: I particularly like the multimeter getting more and more "ragged" with each experiment.

Seriously: it is good that the technology is so safe. I remember old Li-batteries. It was also only a few months ago I dropped a spanner across 5 of my car 16 lead-acid traction batteries, and it was glowing in seconds!

This is from one of the leaf presentations.



Who knows when the NHTSA will test Leaf and publish results ....

http://money.cnn.com/2010/10/05/autos/new_nhtsa_crash_tests/index.htm?section=money_latest&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fmoney_latest+%28Latest+News%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher

from the CNN Story
"Likewise, only two cars earned less than four stars. Those were the Toyota Camry, which earned three and the Nissan Versa compact car which earned two stars."

Any comments on this? Why would Nissan design a 2011 two star car? Safety design, like J.D. Powers is not a secret.

I sure hope the Leaf doesn't test like the 2011 Versa. This is the NHTSA test results page for the 2011 Nissan Versa, using the new 2011 standards. The side impact results is what earned the vehicle a 2 star overall rating (out of 5 stars). As electriclarry stated, this is the lowest rating awarded so far by the NHTSA for 2011 vehicles it has tested.

http://www.safercar.gov/staticfiles/ncap-2011/2011_Nissan_Versa_sidecrash.htm#scenarios

If the two star versa rating carries over to the Leaf, this is a definite deal killer! Anyone hear anything from Nissan about when we will get results on this?

Because of the very rigid body, Leaf will do well in the crash tests. Remember Leaf is as different from Versa as it is different from Altima.

AndyH said:

That being said, even newer lithium cobalt are much safer. Consider these clips from a few months back with the latest varieties of LiCo and other cells. It took a LOT more than just the nail penetration to get these cells to go off - like taking 4V cells to 15V, then adding heat...

Click to expand...

The only trouble, is that lithium chemistries gain a lot of voltage very fast once they reach full charge.
From a half depleted battery pack, charging at 2A, it will take about 5-6 hours for the cells to go from 3.20V to 3.37V, but then it'll only take a couple minutes to get to 3.75V, knowing that at this point the charger current has dropped from 2A to less than 300mA. If charging current was kept the same, I'd bet than a few minutes (with the right voltage), would bring the cells to 15V really fast.

I don't know Lithium Manganese (who else is using it ?), but if it's as safe as LiFePo4, then we should be fine.

I've actually been wondering what happens if you go downhill from a fully charged leaf, if they disable the regen, or if this could lead to overcharge? I can't imagine that the engineers have not thought about it...