Aftermarket hack and "chip"?

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lne937s

lne937s

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Messages
250
Based on recent articles, the highway-capable Renault electric vehicles all use the same electric motor with the same 226 Nm of torque, but they use different levels of optimization to get between 70hp in the Kangoo to 150hp in the Dezir. From the few specs we have available, it seems the LEAF batteries are capable of far more output than how they are used.

As the LEAF uses a similar designed motor but has 280 Nm of torque (rather than 226 Nm for Renault), you could hypothetically get 186 horsepower with the same utilization as the Dezir. Maybe you would also need a new reduction gear to get the most out of it, but it seems like there is a lot of potential to adjust the software.

Also, it seems like a lot of people would like to change the electronically controlled steering boost levels. Also, some hypermilers might be willing to sacrifice some refinement for more regen and range. Maybe you could have a reprogram to make a much larger jump from eco to sport...

Much of this is supposition, but we could see some aftermarket hacks, or maybe Nissan could offer some software upgrades...
 
Sounds good! It's a digital car so I would not be surprised if someone comes up with an App for that. Digital Tuner for your iPhone/Android. I like it!
 
TRONZ said:
Sounds good! It's a digital car so I would not be surprised if someone comes up with an App for that. Digital Tuner for your iPhone/Android. I like it!
Click to expand...

How about a reverse hack?

16 year old son: "Dad, can I borrow the Leaf tonight. I'm only going to school and back for the game!"

Father: "Sure, son, one sec (accessing iPhone "Leaf Max Speed" ap and sets the max speed of the car to 45mph). Here are the keys, son. Enjoy!"
:twisted:
 
I thought there was a spec of 90kw form the pack. That leave 10kw headroom for accessories. Making such changes is alway s just software although that is not the tough part, there are issues with cooling the motor an inverter and the max output of the inverter as well. It is difficult to comment on this without knowing the exact specs of all the components. The reset is tweaks to the software if the parts are capable.
 
EVDRIVER said:
I thought there was a spec of 90kw form the pack. That leave 10kw headroom for accessories. Making such changes is alway s just software although that is not the tough part, there are issues with cooling the motor an inverter and the max output of the inverter as well. It is difficult to comment on this without knowing the exact specs of all the components. The reset is tweaks to the software if the parts are capable.
Click to expand...

They say "over 90kW" from the battery, but the the power density indicates that the "over" is MUCH higher. Chances are that "90" is just what the current output level regulated by the current electronics settings (80kW for the motor and up to 10kW for accessories).
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1311

The LEAF is the same battery size using the same cells as the 150hp Dezir, so it should definitely be capable of at least that much. I would also anticipate fewer thermal issues from the widely spread-out flat air-cooled configuration than the tightly-packed vertical air-cooled configuration of the Renault.
 
evnow said:
I don't expect any hacking. Do you really want to play with the battery warranty ?
Click to expand...

You or I may not be willing to void the warranty on a new car, but people do it all the time (and on much more expensive cars).... and it won't be on warranty forever.

There is also the potential that Nissan may even offer some mild software upgrades that would not void the warranty... like NISMO upgrades-- the EV equivalent of the dealer-installed superchargers Toyota offered on Scions. A mild software change to make the car noticeably more responsive and less soft (or slightly less refined) would potentially cause little additional mechanical strain but create virtually pure profit for the upgrade...
 
lne937s said:
You or I may not be willing to void the warranty on a new car, but people do it all the time (and on much more expensive cars).... and it won't be on warranty forever.
Click to expand...

True - what I meant was modifications on a large scale (like it might happen in the computer world).
 
I've told people that the electric car will truly have arrived once enough of them have lived past their warranty and people start "hot-rodding" them. And when hopped-up EVs start blowing away hopped-up ICEs from stoplights, well then....

Sure, things can be pushed harder. Electric vehicles are already racing and they push things to the edge, just like any racing vehicle. And of course, durability and safety expectations are a lot different in those applications. With due respect for safety, no doubt there will be "mods". Some reckless, some helpful, some fun, some in-between.
 
Another thought about modding:

Unlike gasoline cars, a major barrier to making modifications is eliminated- no emission means no emissions certification and testing and no need to worry about restrictions on modifying car's emissions systems.

As long as there are no durability issues, Nissan could approve alternative software settings for people who want more power but are less concerned with range... You could potentially still have eco mode, and just make "drive" more aggressive. Or maybe add a 3rd mode to the two current ones. Maybe have a safety setting that automatically switches to eco mode when the temperature gets more than 1/2-2/3 up. Or have a sport mode with the same range as "drive", but more responsive accellerator settings, less traction control intervention, HVAC and major accessories turned completely off, virtually no assist on the steering... with all the now available additional electricity going to power the wheels...

Anyway, the point being that with a software-controlled overbuilt electronic drivetrain, their seems to be a lot of potential to modify or adapt to the specific desires of the driver (and potentially switch back) with little or no physical changes...
 
I'm not sure how people have reverse engineered the injection logic for ICE cars, to get a boost of performance, but I would not expect a lot of hacks to come out anytime soon, because the "hack" market is going to be so small initially.
You still need to make changes, and recompile code that is compatible with all the other elements in the car, not easy without any source code. I would even argue that as more modules are integrated together (battery control , motor control, ac control, navigation), it makes it harder to hack one, compared to an ICE car where the module responsible for the injection doesn't need to know much about the tank capacity, or the AC setting.

Finally, you can't do everything in software. Batteries, battery management system, wires, inverter, motor have been designed for some specific current, and increasing that current may or not be possible with the current hardware. The same motor can come with different windings for example (you can trade torque for speed), while it may sound like you have the same power output, at full stop, the current draw will be very different. Change the mass / wheel size of the vehicle, and a faster electrical motor will be fine and won't draw too much current, but put it on a heavier vehicle, and you'll just melt the wires.
 
gudy said:
I'm not sure how people have reverse engineered the injection logic for ICE cars, to get a boost of performance, but I would not expect a lot of hacks to come out anytime soon, because the "hack" market is going to be so small initially.
You still need to make changes, and recompile code that is compatible with all the other elements in the car, not easy without any source code. I would even argue that as more modules are integrated together (battery control , motor control, ac control, navigation), it makes it harder to hack one, compared to an ICE car where the module responsible for the injection doesn't need to know much about the tank capacity, or the AC setting.

Finally, you can't do everything in software. Batteries, battery management system, wires, inverter, motor have been designed for some specific current, and increasing that current may or not be possible with the current hardware. The same motor can come with different windings for example (you can trade torque for speed), while it may sound like you have the same power output, at full stop, the current draw will be very different. Change the mass / wheel size of the vehicle, and a faster electrical motor will be fine and won't draw too much current, but put it on a heavier vehicle, and you'll just melt the wires.
Click to expand...


It may be quite simple if the motor/inverter/pack can handle more output for other vehicles and cooling is sufficient then they software may have parameter settings that can be increased. I have done this on a Think in the Siemens inverter and I am extremely confident the regen can be altered buy a dealer tech. Doing code mods on a Leaf inverter would be pointless, AC inverter software is VERY complex and it would not be worth doing this in a car like the leaf, changing parameters with a service tool is not as big of a deal and may be there to tweak, surely there are settings that can be modified since EVERY advanced EV inverter has them. So do the chargers via RS232 or the CAN BUS with a service tool, done this on an EV as well. The leaf is not going to be a performance car with it's motor and weight so it's silly to try and get more power unless the effort is minimal. I would be more interested in regen changes which can be a big benefit for some drivers.
 
I would interested in not only throttle recalibration and varying levels of power output tuning but the ability to dial in various strengths of regen, like the Golf Blue E-motion that VW is working on. 4 modes of regen (neck breaking to coasting). I'm not sure if the Leaf is using the same type of ECU as typical ICE vehicles but if so it could be tuned by the likes of NISMO or Stillen.

With 100% torque at 0 RPM the car definitely has the ability to roast the tires from a stop.

I intend to autocross mine on occasion so having more aggressive regen would be great. It would be like the throttle and brake pedal combined in to one!

-Nader
 
It's all software driven assuming the cooling capacity on the motor and inverter is there and the inverter has a hight output then it it set to use, the inverter power is the bigger key here over the motor.
 
Herm said:
Is there a way to identify a used LEAF that has been hacked and then returned to the original software spec?
Click to expand...


There may be log files since the battery history is likely stored. Logs would show higher than normal pack discharge, etc. Al these questions will be clear once some cars are hacked.
 
mmmm interesting a hack or mod for a leaf everything can be modded but every mod has it's trade off or effect on other components
 
leafael said:
mmmm interesting a hack or mod for a leaf everything can be modded but every mod has it's trade off or effect on other components
Click to expand...


That's the same for an ICE. Although changing an inverter profile is not that difficult for some there are other system modifications that need to be addressed at the software level and potential hardware level. To modify a Leaf for more power seems a bit of a waste of time as it is structured as a commuter car with a larger higher torque, low HP motor for broad utility. The most useful hacks for the LEAF are regen profiles on the software side and an external charger for the L3 port on the hardware side.
 
of course it's the same for an ice also for anything you mod pc, washing machine
but the components in the inverter would theybe man enough or fast enough for such mods
does anyone know the spec of the capacitors or the IGBT's
 
leafael said:
of course it's the same for an ice also for anything you mod pc, washing machine
but the components in the inverter would theybe man enough or fast enough for such mods
does anyone know the spec of the capacitors or the IGBT's
Click to expand...
The capacitors and transistors for what? The inverter?

If you're referring to the charger, we'll have to wait until someone decides to take it apart. The service manual indicates that the charger is a replaceable unit and isn't to disassemble and repair (dumb!).

I think most "charging" hacks will be to connect a traditional charger to the CHAdeMO port, so most hacks will be external. Internally we'll probably see "driving profiles" for performance and economy and maybe some basic "fun" ones!
 

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