2011 <-> 2011 "easy" battery swap?

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Valdemar

Well-known member
Joined
May 11, 2011
Messages
2,674
Location
Oak Park, CA
For those who missed my story, I have a 2011 Leaf with a brand new Lizard pack that has been totaled and I kept the car. The car is driveable and there is some body damage that can be taken care of but I'm hesitant to spend any money on repairs as it will be a waste. Looking at the 2011 sale ads that sit for months I'm thinking I should be able to pick a clean lower-mileage 2011 with a degraded out-of warranty pack for about $5k next year, give or take. The thinking is given 2 identical cars I should be able to move the VCM and the battery pack from my car to another car and "it'll just work". Am I wrong? How difficult is it to extract the VCM from the Leaf? I can then sell off parts from my salvaged car and battery modules from the degraded pack to recover some of the costs.
 
I think you will probably be able to find one for less than $5000. Leaf prices probably have droped so much because people are scared with all the battery failing stories. I just picked up my first leaf last week. A great condition 2011 that was listed for under $7000. I'm pretty sure there will be some nice clean ones with bad batteries.
 
I've seen a few threads about people taking the cells out to swap. Since a whole pack seems to require dealer help with reprograming. This is just stuff I ran across as I was preparing to get a leaf. Look around for the threads, but I think it's very do-able.
 
I just realized I forgot something. I don't think the batteries cells are replaceable since your not going from 2011 to 2011, your actually going to bring a 2013 to 2011, basically what the dealer just did for you... Probably best to just look at your invoice and that should give you an idea what you need to do.
 
Tonyt said:
I've seen a few threads about people taking the cells out to swap. Since a whole pack seems to require dealer help with reprograming. This is just stuff I ran across as I was preparing to get a leaf. Look around for the threads, but I think it's very do-able.

Moving the modules or the battery controller is doable but is a PITA, and this is exactly what I'm trying to avoid. Not to mention all battery stats will be messed up, so a trip to a dealer may be necessary to perform historical capacity loss data reset on Consult III. The battery controller is paired to the main car controller, given I will have 2 complete cars to play with I want to move both so no battery controller pairing at the destination should be necessary. There may be other issues, like some other modules are also paired to the main controller, I'm just trying to find out if there are any pitfalls.
 
My understanding (not 100%) is that when a newer battery is installed at the dealership, they apply a special retrofit kit to the battery itself to make it compatible with a 2011/12 car. So in theory it should go into another 2011/12 car ok. I would talk to your local dealers and see if they are willing to do it. It _should_ be as simple as swapping the battery and then updating the VCM with the battery ID using Consult III+. There seems to be some concern that they need a special ID card that comes with the new battery to complete this procedure. Only the dealer could answer this question for sure, but I suspect their must be a way to swap the VCM/LBC in an existing battery/vehicle. You can buy the cards online for $500 as I recall. I didn't think they were single use, but maybe so. If you want to reduce the labor cost, you might be able to do the mechanical swap yourself and then bring it to them to do the software change. If they are close by you might be able to drive it, as I believe you will be able to start and drive the car with limited speed / motor output after the swap. Otherwise it would have to be towed in. Dropping the battery isn't trivial but is doable. You'll have to get the car up in the air at least 10-12" and then have something that can handle supporting and lowering/raising 650lbs. I used a hydraulic lift table from harbor freight that I modified to fit underneath, but it still cost a couple hundred bucks.

If you want to diy I think its going to be pretty complicated. You might be able to swap the cells from the new battery into the old case, but remember the old battery is a 2013+ inside so there could be complications. If you retain the LBC from the new car you should be ok with the VCM, but I imagine you'd still want to get the dealer to reset the battery metrics. If you want to swap the whole battery without access to consult, you would have to also move the VCM. I believe you'd also have to move the BCM and use the key fob from the old car as well. That might mean you also have to move the NAV unit (or at least its SD card). The VCM and BCM are not terrible to get at, they are behind the lower dash panels on each side. You can download the service manuals for free from one of the Nissan clubs and have a look at what is involved. If I recall correctly the battery info is in the EVB section, EVC would cover the VCM, BCS would cover the BCM, and INT would cover the dash panels. I think the SEC section discusses some of the security features related to the BCM/VCM/LBC ID code pairings.

You're welcome to check out my Leaf link in my sig below to get an idea of what tearing down a 2011/12 was like. The first video should show the location of the VCM and BCM with the dash panels removed. You wouldn't have to take as much off though ;)

Rob
 
Thanks, this is exactly what I was after. Not considering mechanical challenges for dropping the pack I want to move the LBC in the form of a complete 2015 battery that's already been programmed to the VCM and installed in the donor car, and the VCM itself from that car, sounds like the latter will also pull other pieces with it, but it doesn't sound too bad overall. I'd like to avoid a trip to a dealer if at all possible.
 
I am afraid the odometer reading and VIN are also stored in the VCM so you may end up having to move all modules that have the VIN stored in them. Ultimately, you may have a car whose physical VIN does not match the number stored in the modules. I suggest some more research before you start this process.

Gerry
 
Since you are in CA you might want to talk to ingineer or TonyWilliams and see if one of them or their friends will do it or help you do it. It might cost you but I'm guessing they'll be cheaper than the dealer.
 
GerryAZ said:
I am afraid the odometer reading and VIN are also stored in the VCM so you may end up having to move all modules that have the VIN stored in them. Ultimately, you may have a car whose physical VIN does not match the number stored in the modules. I suggest some more research before you start this process.

Gerry

I could live with the VIN mismatch, but odometer data is definitely something to think about.

dhanson865 said:
Since you are in CA you might want to talk to ingineer or TonyWilliams and see if one of them or their friends will do it or help you do it. It might cost you but I'm guessing they'll be cheaper than the dealer.

That's a possibility, however I believe neither of them is close to me. Someone here suggests a dealer can do a swap for $1k, sounds a bit much as a single battery replacement is 2 hr labor I think, for 2 cars it should be around $500 for 4 hours @dealer rates, but there may be more effort required in this case. Knowing dealers feasibility should be verified, but if it is indeed doable and the cost at a dealer is $600-$700 it may just make sense to pay them to do a proper swap.
 
Tonyt said:
Check this post, might have more info for you.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18421&start=20#p460423

Thanks, I'm more or less up to date on the available options and while the information in this post is valuable it doesn't really apply in this case. The method I had in mind in the OP requires no registration card, doesn't need cracking the battery open and clearing of the gradual capacity loss data via Consult III, and the retrofit kit came with the new pack that I got installed less than 2 months ago so I already have it. My question was pretty specific as to what issues I may step on while executing the process that I had in mind. I do appreciate your effort to help, but I'm afraid you don't fully understand the technicalities.
 
No sorry, still pretty new to the Leaf, at this point I'm probably not much help. I just happen to follow your previous thread and stumbled across this.
 
Tonyt said:
No sorry, still pretty new to the Leaf, at this point I'm probably not much help.

No worries, it is just what I want to accomplish is different from a typical battery replacement problem which is something along the lines "how do I take a used battery from a newer wrecked Leaf (usually 2013+) and put it in my 2011/12 car". The difference is I already have a new battery in my 2011 Leaf, which seemingly makes a DIY swap easier as all you need to do is to move enough components, including the battery, as is to another 2011 car and everything continues to work, well, at least in theory.
 
i am sorry if I sound like a stick in the mud, but all this swapping talk sounds like a big headache and possible financial mess. It is cool to think that you can swap these parts yourself, but no one except a Nissan mechanic know the surprises you will find...

this sounds like when a young person wants to swap their 4 cyl car with a V8.. Either sell the battery and get a complete working car, or buy a good car with a bad battery and give the battery and car to Nissan to install.... quick and easy. Pay Nissan like you would pay a surgeon to operate on you .. You gotta because you cant do it yourself.
 
I suspect that even a Nissan mechanic doesn't know, as this is not a standard procedure and I doubt many were performed if any at all. They should be able to find out though. But yes, good point.
 
Checked with my dealer and they said no problem we can do it, just pay for 10hr labor which correlates with the information I mentioned above. Now I'm curious how they do it without the ID card that comes with a new replacement battery from the factory, I suppose they can request it from Nissan again, but at the same time I'm a bit suspicious they just don't know what they are talking about, it wouldn't be the first time dealer give out incorrect information. I doubt they will open the battery and move modules one by one, not with 10hr labor charge anyway. The scenario where I buy a second car and then the dealer says sorry we were wrong and can't swap the packs is not something I'd like to see.
 
My guess (and its only a guess) is that the dealer needs to have the battery ecu add on card for their consult system in order to do the swap. This seems to be an activation card for the feature in Consult, like the one that allows them to security / key reprogramming. Since not all dealers may have this card or want to buy it, I'm guessing Nissan standard procedure for warranty replacement is to include a loaner or single use card with the replacement battery.

If you are worried about it, I would try to get the service manager and/or Leaf expert from the dealership on the phone and ask the specific question about the "battery registration card" and whether they already have one for their Consult system or plan to acquire one, or whether this is a single use item.

Rob
 
Yes, interviewing a Leaf technician face to face before taking a plunge is definitely on my list :) Perhaps we'll have dealer swap cases reported on MNL by the time I'm ready. $6-7k for a 2011 right now is still a bit more than I'd be willing to pay.
 
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