Acceleration from 0 to 60

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Azrich

Azrich

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Messages
533
Location
Tucson, AZ
I read somewhere on the forum that people had heard the LEAF will go from 0 to 60 in 5 seconds. Whoa!

I just watched a video on You Tube where a young lady at an auto show is giving her spiel about the LEAF. She says the Leaf will accelerate from 0 to 60 in 9 seconds. She goes on to say that the acceleration from 0 to 30 is the fastest of any Nissan car produced today, even faster than their GTR sports car.

She goes on to talk about the maintenance required for the LEAF.
No oil, no transmission fluid, no radiator fluid, no power steering fluid, only the brake fluid.

Here's the video:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2Qr0uuLB0g[/youtube]
 
garygid said:
Maybe the 5 seconds is approximately the 0 to 30 mph time?
Click to expand...


Perhaps but 9 seconds plus is more realistic, the leaf is quite heavy unfortunately.
 
GTR: 0-30 mph: 1.5 secs

Wow, the LEAF is faster than 1.5sec?
Click to expand...

That's what the nice lady said. I'm thinking that maybe after we get our LEAFs we could challenge some GTR owners to a little drag race - like maybe 100 yards. As they are spinning and smoking their tires, we will be quietly humming down the strip.
 
Azrich said:
That's what the nice lady said. I'm thinking that maybe after we get our LEAFs we could challenge some GTR owners to a little drag race - like maybe 100 yards. As they are spinning and smoking their tires, we will be quietly humming down the strip.
Click to expand...

That would be fun in a race track of course, but I think the LEAF will be the one smoking the tires during launch due to lack of traction(FWD) and instant torque. The GTR on the other hand is an AWD monster, it will launch like a bat from hell. I'll start against a Sentra first, then work my way up :D
 
trentr said:
Azrich said:
That's what the nice lady said. I'm thinking that maybe after we get our LEAFs we could challenge some GTR owners to a little drag race - like maybe 100 yards. As they are spinning and smoking their tires, we will be quietly humming down the strip.
Click to expand...

That would be fun in a race track of course, but I think the LEAF will be the one smoking the tires during launch due to lack of traction(FWD) and instant torque. The GTR on the other hand is an AWD monster, it will launch like a bat from hell. I'll start against a Sentra first, then work my way up :D
Click to expand...


Many EVs do well on traction, I had a FWD EV with twice the power of the Leaf and lower weight, since the torque is delivered at 0 RPM, traction control is quite good. You don't dump a clutch at high RPM in an EV.
 
I emailed the Leaf folks and asked about the 0-60 in 5 secs graphic on the CBS News piece.
Their response: "Thank you for taking the time to personally contact us about your interest in the Nissan LEAF.
The 0-60 times quoted by CBS are not accurate. We have not released the performance numbers for LEAF at this point however the vehicle will perform similar to other vehicles in its class."
 
I would not expect much actual performance based on the weight and specs but rather "perceived performance" based on how and when the power is delivered. Perhaps 9 seconds plus if lucky.
 
In my opinion, the quietness of an EV should make it seem more powerful, even if the acceleration is the same. The noise of an ICE accelerating sounds like it's struggling, but an EV quietly accelerating sounds like it's effortless. Also an electric drivetrain by its nature is much more responsive, you take off as soon as you put your foot down, no hesitation like with an ICE car.
 
I rode in a 3-ton (I think) Abner Doble Steamer many years ago ... absolutely magnificant, and really "quick" too! The silent acceleration from a stop is really exhilarating. But, I love "the quiet" where others "require" their sounds.
 
According to this ...

http://www.optoiq.com/index/lasers-for-manufacturing/display/ils-wire-news-display/144114327.html

There are only two gears - forward and reverse - and a characteristic of electric motors is plenty of mid-range power. Acceleration from 0 to 60mph is around eight seconds and the top speed is 90mph.
Click to expand...
 
I suspect that 8 seconds is optimistic, and somewhere around 10 seconds (plus or minus two) is likely.

So, if 10 is "around 8", then the reporter's guess might be "right on".

Just because it appears in print, even here, does not make it correct. But, it might not be wrong either. :)
 
garygid said:
I suspect that 8 seconds is optimistic, and somewhere around 10 seconds (plus or minus two) is likely.

So, if 10 is "around 8", then the reporter's guess might be "right on".

Just because it appears in print, even here, does not make it correct. But, it might not be wrong either. :)
Click to expand...

you mean everything I read on the internet isn't true? oh no...

:)
 
We can actually figure out the acceleration from the kilowatt rating of the motor, the efficiency of the drivetrain, and similar cars for which we have acceleration data.

For example, the GM EV-1 accelerated 0-60 in around 9 seconds, and weighed around 3000 pounds (in the NiMH version). It had a 110 KW motor. Given that the efficiency of the EV-1 drivetrain was pretty good (certainly north of 70%), we know there isn't that much to be gained even if the LEAF had a 100% efficient drivetrain. Similarly, the LEAF weighs about the same or more (certainly not half as much, say). Since the energy of velocity = 1/2 * mv^2, and the LEAF has a much smaller motor (80KW), weighs order of magnitude the same, and has worse coefficient of drag (.28 vs .19), we can be pretty confident that the LEAF wont accelerate faster than the EV-1.

Taking that, we can talk about the redline of the motor. Given that it has about twice the torque of the EV-1 motor, but a similar power output, we can therefore conclude that it probably has about half the max RPM (say 3500-4500 vs 7000 for the EV-1). It probably has a gear ratio of around 2:1 in the single-speed transmission (for tires the size of the leaf, 90MPH is going to be around 2000 RPM).

This explains why they released the max torque, but not the redline. The torque number sounds impressive, but if they released the redline or the 0-60 time people would realize this is not a sporty car in terms of acceleration.

Still, I don't think we were expecting a sporty car.

How about the possibility of upgrades and aftermarket mods?

Given that the battery can charge in 20 minutes (a C rating of 3 sustained), we can conclude that the max C rating on the batteries for a few second pulse is probably around 10 C (representing a power output of 240 KW). In other words, if you could get your hands on a tesla roadster controller and motor and somehow jam it into the LEAF, the batteries would probably support it. Of course, there is no thermal management on the battery pack, so you'd probably brick your batteries if you did a couple too many 0-60 launches in hot weather. The LEAF isn't that much heavier than the roadster though, so you'd probably end up with similar performance (4-6 second 0-60 times).
 
jonasmeyer said:
We can actually figure out the acceleration from the kilowatt rating of the motor, the efficiency of the drivetrain, and similar cars for which we have acceleration data.

For example, the GM EV-1 accelerated 0-60 in around 9 seconds, and weighed around 3000 pounds (in the NiMH version). It had a 110 KW motor. Given that the efficiency of the EV-1 drivetrain was pretty good (certainly north of 70%), we know there isn't that much to be gained even if the LEAF had a 100% efficient drivetrain. Similarly, the LEAF weighs about the same or more (certainly not half as much, say). Since the energy of velocity = 1/2 * mv^2, and the LEAF has a much smaller motor (80KW), weighs order of magnitude the same, and has worse coefficient of drag (.28 vs .19), we can be pretty confident that the LEAF wont accelerate faster than the EV-1.

Taking that, we can talk about the redline of the motor. Given that it has about twice the torque of the EV-1 motor, but a similar power output, we can therefore conclude that it probably has about half the max RPM (say 3500-4500 vs 7000 for the EV-1). It probably has a gear ratio of around 2:1 in the single-speed transmission (for tires the size of the leaf, 90MPH is going to be around 2000 RPM).

This explains why they released the max torque, but not the redline. The torque number sounds impressive, but if they released the redline or the 0-60 time people would realize this is not a sporty car in terms of acceleration.

Still, I don't think we were expecting a sporty car.

How about the possibility of upgrades and aftermarket mods?

Given that the battery can charge in 20 minutes (a C rating of 3 sustained), we can conclude that the max C rating on the batteries for a few second pulse is probably around 10 C (representing a power output of 240 KW). In other words, if you could get your hands on a tesla roadster controller and motor and somehow jam it into the LEAF, the batteries would probably support it. Of course, there is no thermal management on the battery pack, so you'd probably brick your batteries if you did a couple too many 0-60 launches in hot weather. The LEAF isn't that much heavier than the roadster though, so you'd probably end up with similar performance (4-6 second 0-60 times).
Click to expand...


The Tesla is under 2700 lbs, the Leaf is rumored at 3500. The Tesla drive is far higher output and has more HP and the Leaf torque drops off fast, bottom line is don't expect anything better than 0-60 in 10 seconds. The V6 comparison is misleading, it never says 0-60. The bottom line is the Leaf is very heavy for its class and as an EV, unless the numbers are wrong. There is no comparison here and what is the point of putting a $25K ACP drive in a family car that is very heavy?
 
Hey Jonas,

Thanks for the helpful insights, and welcome to the forum. Sounds like the Leaf will be plenty sporty around town, but may not be so impressive passing and merging onto the freeway.
 

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