edatoakrun
Posts: 4745
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: range extender

Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:43 am

Sublime wrote:
...Just to be clear, you're saying the range would increase from ~53 miles (without 5kW genset) to about ~70 miles with the genset at 70mph.



Yes, that's what my math indicated.

I edited the post to:
...So, the increased range from an on-board generator for LEAF 0356 (as for all BEVs) would be highly dependent on driving speed.

I think the increased range from a generator able to deliver 5 kW to the battery, after efficiency loses, for this LEAF (apparently, an Arizona LEAF with somewhat reduced available battery capacity) could be up to:

From ~53 to ~70 miles at 70 mph.

From ~86 to ~180 miles at 45 mph.


And that increase is only by assuming that you started the generator at the beginning of the trip, and the LEAF could accept all the kW.

This generator installation would likely be very difficult and expensive to engineer as an aftermarket installation, IMO.

Which is why I'm disappointed that no BEV manufacture (except BMW, sort of, but using the wrong fuel, and perhaps, disallowing operator control) is building the optimum BEVx, yet.
no condition is permanent

EVerlasting
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:20 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Jul 2013
Leaf Number: 017329
Location: Morristown, NJ, United States

Re: range extender

Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:58 pm

Nissan Leaf is a very comfortable car. Everyday when I admire it from the outside and inside, I found it very difficult to digest that is just a city car. Nissan may proclaim that its just a city car, but it certainly feels like a car capable of long distance OR even cross country trips. A few years ago another auto manufacturer, Toyota, proclaimed that the Prius is only a gasoline hybrid and cannot support a plug in with additional batteries. This was proven incorrect by a small group of enthusiasts who started upgrading Prius's in CA. Soon people were demonstrating outside Toyota's factory demanding plug in EV option which eventually became a reality.

My point is that Nissan Leaf similarly has the potential to be just as good as any other car when it comes to long range, if given some options. Until our leaders and corporations come up with the will to install a nationwide, easily accessible infrastructure of CHAdeMO chargers, it is not a sin to drive a trailer with a constantly running gasoline generator, OR, a trailer with an additional large battery bank to keep the Leaf going. Yes, the Volt is the same thing in terms of the gasoline generator, but not everyone drives long distances or cross country everyday. These gen-trailers could be rented out by Uhaul, Bugdet, etc. I can drive the Leaf all year round saving the environment and money, but as an when I need to go on a long journey, it would be nice to have the option with my Leaf, or for that matter, any EV. This will eliminate the requirement of owning a 2nd ICE car which most Leaf owners do in fear of the occasional long distance trip.

An additional battery bank trailer would still be considered Zero Emission. If the Leaf can carry an additional load of four adult passengers, why can't it drag a rented trailer with additional battery bank for long range trips? Its gotta work.
2012 Nissan Leaf SL|25,000 miles
Weekly charging using public CHAdeMO station 7 miles from my condo apartment and occasional charging using EVSEupgrade L2 240v 12 amps. 11 capacity bars

LeftieBiker
Posts: 7344
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: range extender

Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:53 am

I suppose it wouldn't be a sin IF the generator met all the emissions requirements for a car...
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

donald
Posts: 917
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:45 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Jul 2013

Re: range extender

Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:17 am

Would it be worth balancing the relative cost benefits/deficits of buying/installing a range extender, versus simply having a second, ICE vehicle. Or otherwise sticking all the extra cash that'd be needed to buy extra batteries/an engine into a bank account and occasionally arranging to hire an ICE vehicle when you need further range?

rmay635703
Posts: 419
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:43 pm

Re: range extender

Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:40 pm

jhm614 wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:
Is this with the gen set running the entire time? If so, yuck. Having a gas engine that runs the entire time you are driving is what I am trying to avoid with the Leaf.


Yes, it would be with the 4.5kw genset (which actually seems to handle 5kw fine) running off diesel the whole time assuming you can install a little trailer hitch insert :)

That particular diesel can be purchased with an old Fashioned DC magneto (magnetron) style generator if you want. So your efficiency off the DC head wound correctly (assuming you can wind it correctly) would be very high.

If you pass AC->battery charger you loose efficiency but the numbers for my ZX40 were actual including the battery charger losses, so maybe the leaf wouldn't be much worse?

EVerlasting
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:20 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Jul 2013
Leaf Number: 017329
Location: Morristown, NJ, United States

Re: range extender

Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:53 pm

donald wrote:Would it be worth balancing the relative cost benefits/deficits of buying/installing a range extender, versus simply having a second, ICE vehicle. Or otherwise sticking all the extra cash that'd be needed to buy extra batteries/an engine into a bank account and occasionally arranging to hire an ICE vehicle when you need further range?

My thought was to be able to drive our comfortable Leaf on long range trips using RENTED trailer with battery bank or generator. I prefer a rented battery bank trailer myself. It goes well with Zero Emission standard of the Leaf. If Nissan develops this type of Zero Emission Trailer (with appropriate hitch and battery connections) for rental companies like U-Haul, Budget, Hertz, etc., and even Nissan Dealerships to lease/sell to Leaf owners who wish to extend their Leaf's range for longer trips, this would be a win win for everyone.

It would set aside the range anxiety, long range trip issues of Leaf. It would put the Leaf having comparable range capability of Tesla Model S and Chevy Volt.

Of course wealthy Leaf owners would be able to purchase this type of Zero Emission Trailer with it's added range benefit for everyday use. But realistically it is something which most of us only need a few times every year when we wish to drive our Leaf for long trips or for those who wish to go on interstate or cross country trips.

This type of Zero Emission trailer would also help older Leafs which have lost much of their battery capacity in the future, beyond their warranty period.

This option would also reduce the need for CHAdeMO chargers every 50 miles on highways and Interstates which appears highly unlikely to become a reality.

I realize that this Zero Emission Trailer idea may sound unrealistic now, but my earlier post mentioned similar reaction to early Toyota Prius which had no EV-Only-Mode with added batteries and plug-in options which were initially frowned upon by Toyota and then became a reality thanks to public demand.

Ideas like owning a 2nd ICE car, renting an ICE car, and the gasoline generator trailer, defeat the purpose of Zero Emission lifestyle of most Leaf owners.
2012 Nissan Leaf SL|25,000 miles
Weekly charging using public CHAdeMO station 7 miles from my condo apartment and occasional charging using EVSEupgrade L2 240v 12 amps. 11 capacity bars

LeftieBiker
Posts: 7344
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: range extender

Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:44 am

Hopefully the Volt will become widely available for rental, thus avoiding this FrankenLeaf setup...
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

dm33
Posts: 671
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 4:43 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: range extender

Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:11 am

LeftieBiker wrote:Hopefully the Volt will become widely available for rental, thus avoiding this FrankenLeaf setup...

A volt rental would in no way satisfy my desire for a range extender.

rmay635703
Posts: 419
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:43 pm

Re: range extender

Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:22 pm

dm33 wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:Hopefully the Volt will become widely available for rental, thus avoiding this FrankenLeaf setup...

A volt rental would in no way satisfy my desire for a range extender.


The slow turning diesel genheads are more efficient than the volt range extender and why carry the dead weight of an engine all the time when you can just slip it in your trailerhitch once and a great while when you need it?

johnrhansen
Posts: 1100
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:23 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Jun 2013
Leaf Number: 409445
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: range extender

Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:40 pm

Here are some thoughts on this subject.

As much as these batteries cost, I really don't think that someone owning that much excess capacity is a good idea, unless they can be rented just prior to a trip and returned afterwards. Plus this will require extra wiring modifications to the car. Not sure if I like the idea of regular ham and eggers messing around with high voltage high current wiring. Plus, the Leaf doesn't have much cargo capacity to begin with. If you added enough batteries to appreciably increase the range, you wouldn't have much more room for cargo or passengers!

I think any scheme to charge the batteries or help supply current to the traction motor while the vehicle is stopped or moving isn't necessarily a good idea either. You have to carry around not only an internal combustion engine, but an additional electrical machine as well (generator). With the limited cargo capacity of the leaf weight, is a huge concern.

Thinking of the issues of weight, efficiency and cost, I think the best way to extend the range of the leaf is to add a small internal combustion engine (approx 10 HP) directly connected to an auxiliary wheel with a belt that helps push the car along. The whole system can be removed when the road trip is over. No transmission, no gearboxes, no clutches, just an engine and a small wheel. The whole objective is to propel the car. There is no reason to convert mechanical power into electrical power and then back to mechanical again. Every time you do that you lose 20 percent at least. The engine only helps drive the car at a set highway speeds, say 60 miles per hour. When the car is not at highway speeds, the wheel is retracted from the road, and the engine is shut off. While the engine cannot propel the car at highway speeds by itself, it does add energy directly to the system. It basically makes the car think it is going downhill and should, according to my calculations, double the range using a 10 hp engine at 60 miles per hour.

I think the whole thing could be built for less than a thousand dollars using new parts, and weigh about 100 pounds. I think the amount something like this gets used, it should be as simple and as cheap as possible. If I had it I couldn't imagine running it more than 1000 miles a year. The pure electric drive will do just fine for the other 20,000 miles I drive. I'd only need it if I was driving on a road where there were no fast chargers. Hopefully over time there won't be very many of these, but for now if I wanted to use my Leaf all the time, I need to have one of these devices.

What do you think?
2013 S model with quick charge package.
AV 30 amp level 2 EVSE, Bosch PowerMax 30 Amp EVSE, EVSE upgraded EVSE.

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