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EVDRIVER
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Re: Extra Battery, How to Integrate with 24kWh Traction Battery?

Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:10 am

IssacZachary wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:Push trailers have been around for many years, same for battery trailers etc.

Yes. And they work. The only ones trying to beat a dead horse are the nay-sayers why can't quite hit the horse because it's alive and well. I've known a couple individuals with perfectly fine working EV pusher trailers who's recommendation to me was, "Do it!"
EVDRIVER wrote: Now that there are and will be many more low cost, longer range options... If you take those funds and lost time and get a cheap lease it would be better served.

Cheap lease? I've never leased. I was always under the impression that a lease was a waste of money. At least if you build a battery trailer the trailer and the car are still yours after a few years.


I don't recall saying they don't work they are just past their time for most people, many things work it's a question of making sense. Sure it may make perfect sense for someone who has the wrong EV for the job and wants to build and use a trailer and does not mind the associated headaches. Generators work and so do solar panels on the roof to a entertaining degree. In one year it will be interesting to see how many LEAF owners here use push trailers. That last thread with all the people arguing for them sure yielded a huge increase in their use in the last two years :roll: . Should you complete yours please add it to that thread with all the others. I would bet you that there are more trashed LEAFs that have commercially purchased pack extensions which made them inoperable then there are LEAFS with push trailers being used today, Two of those people I know now drive longer range EVs after abandoning their LEAFs and wish they had all that cash back.

FYI, leases often make more sense in cases when a vehicle has a high depreciation rate and/or you can deduct it as a business expense. Also works great for those want to upgrade to new and better vehicles more often. Nissan and other EV makers often have great lease deals in many states. In California you could get a net lease on a Spark at one point for under $100 a month after the CA rebate. The big picture is that in todays market the economics make far more sense for most people to get a longer range EV or hybrid then try to augment theirs. I also put a vote in for safely, what's that worth? Safely packaging a useful battery pack is not a low weight project and you would never get me to tow a trailer in a metropolitan area. :shock:
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jkenny23
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Re: Extra Battery, How to Integrate with 24kWh Traction Battery?

Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:35 am

I don't know about anyone else, but part of my interest in this is just the sustainability of taking an otherwise perfectly good EV with a mechanical/electrical system that can probably survive another 100k miles and replacing/supplementing a low performing battery as tech improves. There's going to be ~300k Leafs on the market that will soon (~5-7 years) be abandoned as battery tech improves and EVs become mainstream. Would certainly be nice to be able to refurbish a Leaf with a modern range battery, especially those with ChaDeMo, which some modem long range offerings can't even support (Bolt still only does 50kW?)...

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EVDRIVER
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Re: Extra Battery, How to Integrate with 24kWh Traction Battery?

Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:51 am

jkenny23 wrote:I don't know about anyone else, but part of my interest in this is just the sustainability of taking an otherwise perfectly good EV with a mechanical/electrical system that can probably survive another 100k miles and replacing/supplementing a low performing battery as tech improves. There's going to be ~300k Leafs on the market that will soon (~5-7 years) be abandoned as battery tech improves and EVs become mainstream. Would certainly be nice to be able to refurbish a Leaf with a modern range battery, especially those with ChaDeMo, which some modem long range offerings can't even support (Bolt still only does 50kW?)...


Certainly makes sense to do that in the pack area and I'm sure there will be ways to do that. People swap Tesla packs from 60s to 100s.
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IssacZachary
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Re: Extra Battery, How to Integrate with 24kWh Traction Battery?

Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:58 am

EVDRIVER wrote:
IssacZachary wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:Push trailers have been around for many years, same for battery trailers etc.

Yes. And they work. The only ones trying to beat a dead horse are the nay-sayers why can't quite hit the horse because it's alive and well. I've known a couple individuals with perfectly fine working EV pusher trailers who's recommendation to me was, "Do it!"
EVDRIVER wrote: Now that there are and will be many more low cost, longer range options... If you take those funds and lost time and get a cheap lease it would be better served.

Cheap lease? I've never leased. I was always under the impression that a lease was a waste of money. At least if you build a battery trailer the trailer and the car are still yours after a few years.


I don't recall saying they don't work they are just past their time for most people, many things work it's a question of making sense. Sure it may make perfect sense for someone who has the wrong EV for the job and wants to build and use a trailer and does not mind the associated headaches. Generators work and so do solar panels on the roof to a entertaining degree. In one year it will be interesting to see how many LEAF owners here use push trailers. That last thread with all the people arguing for them sure yielded a huge increase in their use in the last two years :roll: . Should you complete yours please add it to that thread with all the others. I would bet you that there are more trashed LEAFs that have commercially purchased pack extensions which made them inoperable then there are LEAFS with push trailers being used today, Two of those people I know now drive longer range EVs after abandoning their LEAFs and wish they had all that cash back.

FYI, leases often make more sense in cases when a vehicle has a high depreciation rate and/or you can deduct it as a business expense. Also works great for those want to upgrade to new and better vehicles more often. Nissan and other EV makers often have great lease deals in many states. In California you could get a net lease on a Spark at one point for under $100 a month after the CA rebate. The big picture is that in todays market the economics make far more sense for most people to get a longer range EV or hybrid then try to augment theirs. I also put a vote in for safely, what's that worth? Safely packaging a useful battery pack is not a low weight project and you would never get me to tow a trailer in a metropolitan area. :shock:

Don't get me wrong. I see your logic. And I'd like to say thanks because you've got me thinking on some other long distance solutions like perhaps getting a lease on a newer EV or trading my Leaf for a 30kWh one or going with some sort of PHEV solution. I'm just trying to see what would work best for me and likely for several others. Any idea what a lease on a 2018 Leaf or Tesla Model 3 would cost? From what I could find out about the Chevy Bolt a lease would be around $350 with a base 2017 Bolt without even any quick charging capability. $350 is almost double my Leaf's car payment and well out of my budget! Ouch!

Meanwhile, I'm hopefully going to have my 1972 VW Beetle up and running today for my long distance purposes. (Do you see any red flags as to safety, reliability, lack of common sense, etc.?) I can't help but wonder how long this will be my long distance solution. But it's what I can afford, so it'll have to work until I can figure something else out. The plan originally was to drive the Leaf and the Golf until used, longer range EV's become cheap and plentiful or an aftermarket longer-range battery become available.

But I keep coming back to the idea of integrating another battery to my Leaf via a trailer. The trailer would be for long distance highway purposes, not metropolitan driving where distances are shorter and charging stations much more abundant. Also the trailer could double as a power wall. I have designs for a solar panel that would provide up to 6kW of power, fit and fold up on top of the trailer, and cost less than $2,000. Yes, that's a lot of money, $3,000-$4,000 in batteries and $2,000 in solar panels. But $6,000 plus the $9,000 for my Leaf is still a whole lot cheaper than $30,000-$50,000 for the EV solutions on the market. Yes, I may be dreaming a far fetched fantasy.

But what if I sold my Bug for at least $6,000. Then what? Sell the Leaf too and take all that as a down payment on a new lease or car payment? Or build my battery trailer? Or buy a Prius?
Last edited by IssacZachary on Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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EVDRIVER
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Re: Extra Battery, How to Integrate with 24kWh Traction Battery?

Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:32 am

IssacZachary wrote: The plan originally was to drive the Leaf and the Golf until used, longer range EV's become cheap and plentiful or an aftermarket longer-range battery become available.



Makes sense. No idea on Tesla lease rates but I would think there will be lease deals on the LEAF or other EVs that are aggressive to compete with the large 3 sales figures. I would expect auto makers to have big incentives to get those buyers once the initial loyalty buyers have purchased.

LEAFs also don't end up being scrapped they in many cases go to auction and are shipped in very large numbers to Russia, Ukraine, the EU, etc. The export numbers are incredibly high for used LEAFs, one single private party alone ships many thousands of cars yearly. We are now turning the corner on range issues and I expect there will be downward pressure on prices if the market keeps headed in the same direction.
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Re: Extra Battery, How to Integrate with 24kWh Traction Battery?

Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:39 am

I just found the lease price of a 2017 Leaf. $225 dollars/month. Now that would be something I could handle! If Leaf gen 2 is that low I might make the jump from owner to leaser (or lease-a-nator or whatever I'd be called.)
2013 SL 50,000 miles.
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Re: Extra Battery, How to Integrate with 24kWh Traction Battery?

Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:28 am

IssacZachary wrote:I just found the lease price of a 2017 Leaf. $225 dollars/month. Now that would be something I could handle! If Leaf gen 2 is that low I might make the jump from owner to leaser (or lease-a-nator or whatever I'd be called.)


Is there still a CO rebate as well?
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mux
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Re: Extra Battery, How to Integrate with 24kWh Traction Battery?

Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:29 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:
IssacZachary wrote: The plan originally was to drive the Leaf and the Golf until used, longer range EV's become cheap and plentiful or an aftermarket longer-range battery become available.



Makes sense. No idea on Tesla lease rates but I would think there will be lease deals on the LEAF or other EVs that are aggressive to compete with the large 3 sales figures. I would expect auto makers to have big incentives to get those buyers once the initial loyalty buyers have purchased.

LEAFs also don't end up being scrapped they in many cases go to auction and are shipped in very large numbers to Russia, Ukraine, the EU, etc. The export numbers are incredibly high for used LEAFs, one single private party alone ships many thousands of cars yearly. We are now turning the corner on range issues and I expect there will be downward pressure on prices if the market keeps headed in the same direction.


Yup, they get dumped here pretty much. I don't see much going to Eastern Europe at all; on the europe-wide car auction thingy we have here, almost all imported Leafs go to the big markets: Norway, UK, Netherlands, France.

The kicker though: whereas in the US you can expect to pay at most $8k for a well-used Leaf, here they sell for €12k used. More if it's not white and/or has low mileage. I do envy the US sometimes.

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IssacZachary
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Re: Extra Battery, How to Integrate with 24kWh Traction Battery?

Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:54 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:
IssacZachary wrote:I just found the lease price of a 2017 Leaf. $225 dollars/month. Now that would be something I could handle! If Leaf gen 2 is that low I might make the jump from owner to leaser (or lease-a-nator or whatever I'd be called.)


Is there still a CO rebate as well?


I think it's still available this year but greatly reduced from what it was when I bought my Leaf in 2016. Back then you got the precent off your Leaf what the kWh were, so I got a 24% rebate for buying a 24kWh Leaf. But it was to go down uy half, if I remember right, beginning January 2017, and then half again this month of January 2018. So a 30kWh Leaf may land me something like a 7% rebate. I'm not sure any of that applies to leases.
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11 bars current. :)
The Nissan Leaf is the fourth best long distance car for highway driving. >>Best Long Distance Cars<<

goldbrick
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Re: Extra Battery, How to Integrate with 24kWh Traction Battery?

Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:24 pm

I got $5000 off from CO when I bought my 2017 Leaf. I doubt any of that would apply to a lease. A quick google search shows this same rebate ($5k) is extended to 2021 in CO. I never saw the money as it went straight from CO to the dealer and they just took it off the purchase price.

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