What is a "Gid"?

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Ingineer

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 15, 2010
Messages
2,742
Location
Berkeley, California
I don't have one of Gary's meters, but I'm reasonably sure that what Gary found on the CAN bus is not the SOC, it's watt-hours / 80. So if you multiply "Gids" * 80, you get the true capacity in watt hours, or you can multiply by .08 and get kWh.

I typically see a full charge stop at 94-95% true SOC. My last charge to "100%" was actually to 94.591% SOC, and 22240 watt-hours, which is 271 "Gids".

Just so you guys all know!

-Phil
 
TomT said:
Why don't you guys compare notes... That way we all win!
Ingineer said:
I don't have one of Gary's meters, but I'm reasonably sure that what Gary found on the CAN bus is not the SOC, it's watt-hours / 80.

Ya, wouldn't that be awesome!

Phil, why do we not measure these 22.5kWh (281.25 Gid) when our typical dash miles/kWh divided by miles driven (when driven all the way from 281 Gid to 1 or 2 Gid)?

More typical is 18-21.5-ish kWh, depending largely on temperature. For example, I drive 100 miles, and average 4.8 miles/kWh, that infers 100/4.8=20.8kWh.

Also, for the sake of continuity, might I suggest that we simply consider SOC that we have access to. I recognize the battery has more, but I think of it as fuel sloshing around in the gas tank that the fuel pump can't access. Yes, there's a little more in there, but we've already burnt 100% of the usable and available energy.

Finally, a request. Can we please bump up the cell voltage from 4.1v to 4.2v ?
 
I don't yet have an answer for that, but I trust the battery ECU's calculations of SOC and watt-hours much better than the crappy software in the combination meter. There's many possibilities for error. One obvious one is other systems using energy in the car.

-Phil
 
Ingineer said:
I don't have one of Gary's meters, but I'm reasonably sure that what Gary found on the CAN bus is not the SOC, it's watt-hours / 80. So if you multiply "Gids" * 80, you get the true capacity in watt hours, or you can multiply by .08 and get kWh.

I typically see a full charge stop at 94-95% true SOC. My last charge to "100%" was actually to 94.591% SOC, and 22240 watt-hours, which is 271 "Gids".

Just so you guys all know!

-Phil

I can confirm that. I got 79.0 average kw/gid on one charge and 83.4 on another as measured going into the battery. Below is a plot of the energy per gid for two separate 100% charges. There is a lot of noise but the average value matches yours. Was the 22240 from the wall or into the battery?

Energypergid.jpg
 
a wh meter would give you consistent range estimates (all else being equal) and be linear, but apparently the GID meter is not linear.. IIRC
 
There is some non-linearity, true, but it's still a lot better than the 12 bars on the dash. The graph below shows the non-linearity better, I think. I plotted the energy into the battery versus time and gids vs time during the same 100% charge. You can see that the energy into the battery is a very linear constant rate (as expected), but the gids do vary a little - particularly at the low end. Note there are two separate Y axis (charge in kwh on right and gids on the left), so don't read anything into the separation at the end of the charge cycle.

chargevstime.jpg
 
Both these figures are obtained directly from the battery ECU in the car, and there are no calculations done on my part. Sorry, but I can't give any more technical details out at this time. But I will say something's exciting on the horizon!

-Phil
 
I hope this is more concrete than the LED headlight DRL mod that was bantered about some time ago and than mysteriously disappeared from discussion... :lol:

Ingineer said:
Both these figures are obtained directly from the battery ECU in the car, and there are no calculations done on my part. Sorry, but I can't give any more technical details out at this time. But I will say something's exciting on the horizon!

-Phil
 
TomT said:
I hope this is more concrete than the LED headlight DRL mod that was bantered about some time ago and than mysteriously disappeared from discussion...
It did not "mysteriously disappear". If you read fully you will see that posted that I don't have a schematic available for the DRL mod, nor will I provide one because of the extent of modifications needed in crictical areas of the Leaf's systems. I provided information on how to perform the VSP mod, and several people have already caused problems with their car. I will not release information that will encourage people to do anything to their cars that could be harmful. Period.

Poking me like this is not the best way to encourage me to share anything in the future. I want to help the Leaf (and greater EV) community as much as I can, but it's not possible to give everything people ask. I get many emails a day asking for help, opinions, custom work, etc. Just not possible!

-Phil
 
Curious what would behoove them to settle on 80Wh as a unit. Is there some other whole (or decimal) unit of energy that would be the equivalent?
 
Well, since EVDriver was going on and on about it, the logical assumption was that it must have been released in some form and would therefore be forthcoming... Sorry, if the intent was misunderstood!

Ingineer said:
If you read fully you will see that posted that I don't have a schematic available for the DRL mod, nor will I provide one because of the extent of modifications needed in crictical areas of the Leaf's systems.
 
Ingineer said:
Both these figures are obtained directly from the battery ECU in the car, and there are no calculations done on my part. Sorry, but I can't give any more technical details out at this time. But I will say something's exciting on the horizon!
Damn you and your teases! I love to hear about all this cool stuff (please don't stop), but then I get bummed that either: a) it isn't yet ready for public consumption; or b) I'm not smart enough to figure it out myself. :oops:

Ingineer said:
Poking me like this is not the best way to encourage me to share anything in the future. I want to help the Leaf (and greater EV) community as much as I can, but it's not possible to give everything people ask. I get many emails a day asking for help, opinions, custom work, etc. Just not possible!
Easy now, I know it's all too easy to read into what people write, but he did put a LOL smiley on the end of his comment... For most of us, it's like being a little kid waiting for presents on Christmas - it gets hard to wait. You, well, you're Santa of course. Only without his magical super powers that let him take care of everything in one day! I'm sure we don't want to piss you off intentionally because then all we'll get is a lump of coal. :lol:

Everyone breathe!
 
GeekEV said:
I'm sure we don't want to piss you off intentionally because then all we'll get is a lump of coal. :lol:

Everyone breathe!
Sorry if I'm a little hair-trigger, I've been dealing with the constant inundation of idiots emailing and calling me after the yahoo article surfaced. There are people really pissed about this, and I'm getting all kinds of haters and crackpots coming at me. It's truly a shame there is that much anti-EV sentiment!

-Phil
 
I thought it was a good article... With what are people taking umbrage?

Ingineer said:
Sorry if I'm a little hair-trigger, I've been dealing with the constant inundation of idiots emailing and calling me after the yahoo article surfaced. There are people really pissed about this, and I'm getting all kinds of haters and crackpots coming at me. -Phil
 
Ingineer said:
GeekEV said:
I'm sure we don't want to piss you off intentionally because then all we'll get is a lump of coal. :lol:

Everyone breathe!
Sorry if I'm a little hair-trigger, I've been dealing with the constant inundation of idiots emailing and calling me after the yahoo article surfaced. There are people really pissed about this, and I'm getting all kinds of haters and crackpots coming at me. It's truly a shame there is that much anti-EV sentiment!

-Phil

Wow, I just linked to the Yahoo article and read some of the over 2,000 comments. What a cross section of know-it-all, closed minded haters and perpetual motion believers! Sorry you're being plagued by these people, Phil.
 
To the best of my current understanding:

However one scales the "raw" data, it appeared to turbo2ltr that it was (in the original Old-Bars firmware) being used to create the E-fuel Bars (0 to 12 Bars). So, it appears to be used internally by the LEAF as a "fuel" gauge, which I loosely called "state of charge".

Although several have gotten "281" after a "full" charge, many typically get less, often in the 270's.

Scaling these "Gids" by 80 (or 100/281) does not change the base data, which still gets "used up" faster at the top end, and occasionally appears to be "not really available" at the low end.

You can scale 281 (by 80) to 22480 Wh (or by 0.08 to get 22.5 kWh) if you find it helpful, however the top "kWh" will still disappear faster, and the bottom couple of "kWh" might occasionally be just "wishful thinking".

So, however you like it scaled, please use this "Gid" value ... cautiously.
 
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