Newbie question: 80% overnight vs morning?

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GaryHere said:
I have BT on my phone so I will look into the links here and order the OBD from Amazon.
Yeah, probably just about every smartphone sold in the US for the last few years should have Bluetooth.

Whether it has Bluetooth LE is another question. On the iOS side, it looks like the iPhone 4S was the first iPhone to have Bluetooth LE. All the ones introduced after that have it.

Do NOT waste time with any sort auto parts "compatibility" checker for the dongle on Amazon. Who knows what their criteria are? It's 99% likely is has nothing to do w/Leaf Spy let alone Leaf Spy with your phone.
 
LeftieBiker said:
This sounds nuts, but thanks to Nissan's "engineering" I'm planning on putting an air conditioner in my garage so I can store the car in moderate temps during heatwaves. I'll set it for about 78-80F...
It sounds expensive and a lot of energy use. Why not just park outside ? And or keep the battery at a lower SoC during heat waves ?

Isn't your car leased ? I'm surprised that your are willing to subsidize Nissan engineering.
 
By the way, @LeftieBiker

If you apply Arrhenius' law of chemical reaction rates to this question, it would follow that one month of hot weather (10c over your average) would be equivalent to two months battery degradation in your normal weather. Over the 36 month lease the car would age the equivalent of 39 months in your climate without those heat spells, all else being equal. Even if the hot spells are 20C hotter than average, that is still only 9 months of extra usual rate degradation

And of course you can mitigate this effect as I mentioned above.
 
cwerdna said:
GaryHere said:
I have BT on my phone so I will look into the links here and order the OBD from Amazon.
Yeah, probably just about every smartphone sold in the US for the last few years should have Bluetooth.

Whether it has Bluetooth LE is another question. On the iOS side, it looks like the iPhone 4S was the first iPhone to have Bluetooth LE. All the ones introduced after that have it.

Do NOT waste time with any sort auto parts "compatibility" checker for the dongle on Amazon. Who knows what their criteria are? It's 99% likely is has nothing to do w/Leaf Spy let alone Leaf Spy with your phone.

I think I am going for a EML 27 I saw on Amazon.

Just waiting to get my brothers password on to Amazon cause he has Prime :D
 
GaryHere said:
I think I am going for a EML 27 I saw on Amazon.

Just waiting to get my brothers password on to Amazon cause he has Prime :D
Be careful what you buy. From the PDF of the Leaf Spy manual for Android I have

In order for LeafSpy to communicate with a Leaf a user supplied OBDII adapter must first be installed in the Leaf's OBDII socket located under the dash above the driver's left knee. The Leaf must be turned on (dash gauges active, not just ACC mode) and after starting LeafSpy for the first time the OBDII adapter must be selected using the "Select OBDII" option. LeafSpy supports three types of OBDII adapters: Bluetooth 4.x LE, standard Bluetooth and WiFi.

The recommended OBDII adapter type is the newer Bluetooth 4.x LE which is low power and requires no pairing. There are two supported Bluetooth 4.x LE adapters the LELink available from Amazon and the PLX Kiwi 3. Of the two the LELink is the recommended adapter.

The cheap standard Bluetooth OBDII adapters available on ebay and other places are hard to recommend due to two issues. The first is that most standard Bluetooth OBDII adapters are cheap clones of the original ELM327. This was originally not a problem as they supported the required ELM327 commands to communicate with the Leaf. But a year or two ago these cheap adapters started to change as outline below in more detail. They were cost reduced resulting in critical ELM327 commands not needed to communicate with a gas car being dropped. Instead of reducing the version number (fewer commands supported) the version number either stayed the same (1.5) or changed to 2.1. Making the version number meaningless. An adapter that really supported the ELM327 v1.2 or v2.1 command set would work with LeafSpy.

The second issue is with the Bluetooth OBDII adapter that had previously been recommend which was the Konnwei KW-902. This supported the required commands but has recently been cost reduced. However, the cost reduction is not the issue as the supported commands are still there. Instead the wrong resistor is being used to terminate the +/- CAN signals. Due to a design or manufacturing error instead of a 120 ohm resistor being used it was changed to a 20 ohm resistor. If plugged into the Leaf this low resistor value will prevent the CAN bus from functioning properly and can result in an i-Key fault, not being able to drive the Leaf and other strange behavior. If you have a Konnwei KW-902 you should check the resistance between pins 6 and 14. A reading of 20 ohms indicates a defective adapter which should not be plugged into your Leaf. The CAN bus is fault tolerant so if you have plugged it in unplugging should allow the Leaf to resume normal operation.

If you are lucky enough to already have or buy a standard Bluetooth OBDII adapter that still support the full command set the adapter must first be paired with the Android device using the Android Bluetooth Settings menu. The typical PIN is "1234". Then when LeafSpy is first started go into the LeafSpy Menu and select the "Select OBDII" => "Bluetooth Paired Devices" to bring up a list of paired device. From the list select the OBDII adapter then reenter the PIN.

At this time it seems all WiFi OBDII adapters support the required ELM327 commands and can report v1.5 or v2.1. Most are large and will extend about 3" down from the bottom of the dash so could interfere with your legs. Being WiFi they have a much longer range but the tradeoff is much higher power drain from the Leaf 12v battery when the Leaf is off. When LeafSpy is first started go into the LeafSpy Menu and select the "Select OBDII" => "WiFi Devices" to bring up a list of Networks. Select the OBDII adapter network and if a password is required enter it on the next screen.

Recently it has become harder to find a low cost OBDII Bluetooth adapter that works with the Leaf due to a recent cost reduction change made by many of the Asian manufactures of clone ELM327 adapters. These manufactures have eliminated the dedicated PIC processor that decoded and execute the ELM commands. That function has now been combined into the existing Bluetooth processor saving several dollars in cost. Whether because of code space limitations or inexperience in the ELM command set the critical commands needed to communicate with the Leaf have been dropped. To make things confusing for the buyer these lower cost (to produce) ELM327 adapters are given a version number of 2.1 instead of the previous 1.5 designation. Since commands have been dropped not added it is totally inaccurate to label them as 2.1 which should match the version of the ELM command set supported. Adapters bought from the same seller before and after the change can look exactly the same outside. Only by opening them up for examination can a difference be seen (lack of PIC processor).

LeafSpy does not look at the version number reported by the ELM327 adapter. It is not until LeafSpy attempts to configure the ELM327 for communications with the Leaf does LeafSpy discover the lack of support for the needed ELM commands. If the ELM327 reporting a version number of 2.1 actually supported the official version 2.1 ELM command set it would work with LeafSpy. This incorrect labeling as version 2.1 gives the impression that LeafSpy does not support ELM version 2.1 which is total incorrect.
Are you planning to run on Android or iOS?

If iOS and your phone is iPhone 4S is newer, choose LELink. That's what Turbo3 recommends.

He also recommends LELink for Android now but your phone must have Bluetooth LE. What phone or tablet do you plan to run this on? I need to go. Otherwise, I could provide a few more pointers. Whatever you get, make sure others here on MNL have reported success in the past year or two with the same exact model.
 
cwerdna said:
GaryHere said:
I think I am going for a EML 27 I saw on Amazon.

Just waiting to get my brothers password on to Amazon cause he has Prime :D
Be careful what you buy. From the PDF of the Leaf Spy manual for Android I have

In order for LeafSpy to communicate with a Leaf a user supplied OBDII adapter must first be installed in the Leaf's OBDII socket located under the dash above the driver's left knee. The Leaf must be turned on (dash gauges active, not just ACC mode) and after starting LeafSpy for the first time the OBDII adapter must be selected using the "Select OBDII" option. LeafSpy supports three types of OBDII adapters: Bluetooth 4.x LE, standard Bluetooth and WiFi.

The recommended OBDII adapter type is the newer Bluetooth 4.x LE which is low power and requires no pairing. There are two supported Bluetooth 4.x LE adapters the LELink available from Amazon and the PLX Kiwi 3. Of the two the LELink is the recommended adapter.

The cheap standard Bluetooth OBDII adapters available on ebay and other places are hard to recommend due to two issues. The first is that most standard Bluetooth OBDII adapters are cheap clones of the original ELM327. This was originally not a problem as they supported the required ELM327 commands to communicate with the Leaf. But a year or two ago these cheap adapters started to change as outline below in more detail. They were cost reduced resulting in critical ELM327 commands not needed to communicate with a gas car being dropped. Instead of reducing the version number (fewer commands supported) the version number either stayed the same (1.5) or changed to 2.1. Making the version number meaningless. An adapter that really supported the ELM327 v1.2 or v2.1 command set would work with LeafSpy.

The second issue is with the Bluetooth OBDII adapter that had previously been recommend which was the Konnwei KW-902. This supported the required commands but has recently been cost reduced. However, the cost reduction is not the issue as the supported commands are still there. Instead the wrong resistor is being used to terminate the +/- CAN signals. Due to a design or manufacturing error instead of a 120 ohm resistor being used it was changed to a 20 ohm resistor. If plugged into the Leaf this low resistor value will prevent the CAN bus from functioning properly and can result in an i-Key fault, not being able to drive the Leaf and other strange behavior. If you have a Konnwei KW-902 you should check the resistance between pins 6 and 14. A reading of 20 ohms indicates a defective adapter which should not be plugged into your Leaf. The CAN bus is fault tolerant so if you have plugged it in unplugging should allow the Leaf to resume normal operation.

If you are lucky enough to already have or buy a standard Bluetooth OBDII adapter that still support the full command set the adapter must first be paired with the Android device using the Android Bluetooth Settings menu. The typical PIN is "1234". Then when LeafSpy is first started go into the LeafSpy Menu and select the "Select OBDII" => "Bluetooth Paired Devices" to bring up a list of paired device. From the list select the OBDII adapter then reenter the PIN.

At this time it seems all WiFi OBDII adapters support the required ELM327 commands and can report v1.5 or v2.1. Most are large and will extend about 3" down from the bottom of the dash so could interfere with your legs. Being WiFi they have a much longer range but the tradeoff is much higher power drain from the Leaf 12v battery when the Leaf is off. When LeafSpy is first started go into the LeafSpy Menu and select the "Select OBDII" => "WiFi Devices" to bring up a list of Networks. Select the OBDII adapter network and if a password is required enter it on the next screen.

Recently it has become harder to find a low cost OBDII Bluetooth adapter that works with the Leaf due to a recent cost reduction change made by many of the Asian manufactures of clone ELM327 adapters. These manufactures have eliminated the dedicated PIC processor that decoded and execute the ELM commands. That function has now been combined into the existing Bluetooth processor saving several dollars in cost. Whether because of code space limitations or inexperience in the ELM command set the critical commands needed to communicate with the Leaf have been dropped. To make things confusing for the buyer these lower cost (to produce) ELM327 adapters are given a version number of 2.1 instead of the previous 1.5 designation. Since commands have been dropped not added it is totally inaccurate to label them as 2.1 which should match the version of the ELM command set supported. Adapters bought from the same seller before and after the change can look exactly the same outside. Only by opening them up for examination can a difference be seen (lack of PIC processor).

LeafSpy does not look at the version number reported by the ELM327 adapter. It is not until LeafSpy attempts to configure the ELM327 for communications with the Leaf does LeafSpy discover the lack of support for the needed ELM commands. If the ELM327 reporting a version number of 2.1 actually supported the official version 2.1 ELM command set it would work with LeafSpy. This incorrect labeling as version 2.1 gives the impression that LeafSpy does not support ELM version 2.1 which is total incorrect.
Are you planning to run on Android or iOS?

If iOS and your phone is iPhone 4S is newer, choose LELink. That's what Turbo3 recommends.

He also recommends LELink for Android now but your phone must have Bluetooth LE. What phone or tablet do you plan to run this on? I need to go. Otherwise, I could provide a few more pointers. Whatever you get, make sure others here on MNL have reported success in the past year or two with the same exact model.

Wow alot of valuable info there, thanks a bunch!

I have an android phone ZTE, cheap Chinese phone but serves my needs well.

I saw that LELink, looks good, I'll just have to wait till next paycheck for that. I spent too much I think this month on cars and I'm finding it's not cheap charging my Leaf at Blink. I think my old ICE car was cheaper with gas. Looking for a rental apartment/house where i can plug in.

Thnx for all the info here, in going to copy it/bookmark it so I have it to refer to.
 
SageBrush said:
GaryHere said:
Looking for a rental apartment/house where i can plug in.
Good for you! People like you will make things change for the better.

Thanx. Amazing how many places aren't equipped.

Maybe if there were more places to plug in apartments etc, there would be more of them (EVs) bought?

I know quite a few turned off by the fact that where they live doesn't accommodate them if they lived there and had an EV.

These rentals accommodate people with EVs after they ask but people don't go...hey there's a plug here, I'll sign a lease or there's a plug at my work, I'll buy that EV.

Kinda sad.



LeftieBiker said:
In the meantime, look for free L-2 charging near someplace where you can spend an hour or two regularly.

Thank you.

It seems here that Chargepoint is the only one with free chargers. There are many Blink but none I've seen are free.

There's 2 CHAdeMO in Tucson from what I see. (Could be more though) One is broke still from an idiot who smashed it's screen and the other is EVgo for .35 cents a minute.

I guess the CP is the way to go for now, just one is 22 miles RT, the other 10 and that's the one I've used.

There are a few wall plugs at some malls/stores but they are a bit too slow to sit there (or do something in the area)
 
Check your local Nissan dealers too. In my town, the Nissan plugs are free for 'anyone' but I'm sure that varies from dealer to dealer.
 
goldbrick said:
Check your local Nissan dealers too. In my town, the Nissan plugs are free for 'anyone' but I'm sure that varies from dealer to dealer.

Will do.

Thnx a lot :D
 
I called Nissan to ask about this. I've heard posts from folks using the 20%-80% rule, others that time is perfectly so that it only stays at 100% for a short while, and other that charge all the time without any regard to anything!!!!

I have a 2018 Leaf, so the battery chemistry is probably different from the 30 kw/h versions.
So....I called Nissan and asked them. They said that high heat is the most important factor when talking about battery longevity. They said that if it's hot out, park in the shade. Also, turn on the A/C in the car 5-10 minutes before you get into the car, when it's outside. It doesn't completely cool the battery, but it helps.

They also said to let it run down to 30-40%, and recharge then. 20%, 30%, 40%.....those levels ( In other words, don't drive to the store and recharge it when it's 90%! Also, don't let it run down to 5% either!!!)
The theory is that it reduces the number of charging cycles.

With all that being said about charging cycles, etc......far and away the most important thing is to try and keep it out of the full sun.

My plan is to follow those instructions, and in 2023, I will let everybody know how this plan worked out!!!! When it's low, I am going to charge it to 100%, and I am not going to time it, unless I switch to a power plan that is less expensive overnight.

THanks!!

Mark
 
With all that being said about charging cycles, etc......far and away the most important thing is to try and keep it out of the full sun.

Ambient temps in the shade, if high enough, can also cause problems, so watch the battery temp gauge rather than the sun. It's fine to park for a while in the sun on an 80F day. Just crack at least two of the windows an inch. As for the chemistry, they seem to have changed it for more capacity, not greater heat resistance. Don't assume that your 2018 (or mine) will resist degradation better than a 2017. I'm using a cool garage to try to avoid heat-soaking my car, and it may work because I drive so little these days.
 
Haven't been on forum in quite awhile. Yall got a great forum here. Just updating my status with my 2018 Leaf SL. We have been using the 20-80 rule on an L2 garage charger with an appx average garage temp of 90 degrees F. Car never sees sun unless we are driving in it. It sits in the garage so no direct sunlight for any long periods of time. 1200 mi at this time and no problems. The odd thing is, we never see any battery heat gauge flunctuation. I is always at the halfway mark even when we charged yesterday with the L2 and garage temp was at 95 degrees. Seems strange to never get any flunctuations. SOH according to GOM showing all bars.
 
Just an update on temperature gauge. It never changed from the middle point for about 7 months. Well we have had a cold spell here in south florida for the past month and we noticed a real change in the gauge. It is well below the middle now. Maybe Nissan downloaded some software change or it takes a drastic temp variance to cause it to move, I dunno. It just seems that Nissan would download a digital gauge with some numbers on to benefit us mature minded individuals.
 
LeftieBiker said:
It does take a real change in ambient temps to move the bars. As for numbers, would you want individual sensor readings, or an average of them all?
Yep... normally it can on my '13. However, if one as on the "edge" of when it transitions from the current reading to + or - 1 bar, it doesn't take much. I've seen this many times myself w/average battery temps around mid to low 50 F to maybe low 60 F readings, per Leaf Spy.

jusgetalong needs to get something such as Leaf Spy and compatible OBD2 dongle for the app on their phone/tablet OS to really see what's going on.
 
Onbypass said:
I called Nissan to ask about this. I've heard posts from folks using the 20%-80% rule, others that time is perfectly so that it only stays at 100% for a short while, and other that charge all the time without any regard to anything!!!!

The first two aren't incompatible. If possible, try to keep the battery between 20-80%, but if your range needs require more than 80%, then minimize how long it stays at a high level by timing the charge to end as close to your departure time as possible. The issue isn't charging to 100%, it's charging to 100% and letting the car sit like that for an extended period. Nissan prior to 2014 had a "Long Life Mode" that automatically shut off charging at 80% but they took it away for the US and Canadian market.

I have a 2018 Leaf, so the battery chemistry is probably different from the 30 kw/h versions.

It may be different, but one important factor is it may not be any better, and could be worse. For example, the 30 kWH batteries seem to degrade faster than the 24 kWH ones used in the 2015's and some 2016's. It's too early to say if the 40 kWH in the 2018's will do better or worse than any previous Leaf battery.

So....I called Nissan and asked them. They said that high heat is the most important factor when talking about battery longevity. They said that if it's hot out, park in the shade. Also, turn on the A/C in the car 5-10 minutes before you get into the car, when it's outside. It doesn't completely cool the battery, but it helps.

As the Leaf doesn't have any kind of active cooling system for the battery, turning on the A/C wouldn't help at all. The Kia Soul EV (at least the original -- don't know about the new model just announced at the LA Auto Show) does direct cabin air to the battery, but from what I've heard it hasn't made the battery last any longer than the Leaf's.

They also said to let it run down to 30-40%, and recharge then. 20%, 30%, 40%.....those levels ( In other words, don't drive to the store and recharge it when it's 90%! Also, don't let it run down to 5% either!!!)
The theory is that it reduces the number of charging cycles.

There's also a theory that frequent but shallow charging cycles are better for your battery, as it heats up the battery less. I do agree with them that you shouldn't "top up" if the battery is already in the 90's % and to not let the battery level drop that low.

When it's low, I am going to charge it to 100%, and I am not going to time it, unless I switch to a power plan that is less expensive overnight.

Well, I hope you don't have a big range need, because constantly charging to 100% and letting it sit for long periods like that is definitely not good for the battery. Even Tesla with their active battery TMS doesn't recommend constantly charging to 100%.
 
I think a digital read out, like they do with the outside temp, average of all cells would suffice. Too much data tends to confuse more than it communicates, due to biological dead zones. ;-)
 
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