agt
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:58 am
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Re: Using air conditioning to reduce battery pack tempature

Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:12 am

Nobody is proposing doing anything with the Service Plug. The Service Plug is already weather proof, a little cool air blowing over it shouldn't hurt anything. If you are worried about something dropping down the opening then you can always put a screen over it.


Are you suggesting removing the plastic cover plate, or also the metal plate secured with 10mm bolts?

If only the former, the HV components would seem well-protected; but without the metal cover, what would prevent a spilled drink (or a water from a firefighter's hose) from infiltrating and shorting the 400V DC fuse assembly?

At the very least, some sort of splash-resistant cover would seem in order.
2016 S - San Diego (Mira Mesa), CA

TexasLeaf
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:37 am
Delivery Date: 21 Mar 2018
Leaf Number: 303111

Re: Using air conditioning to reduce battery pack tempature

Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:30 am

agt wrote:Are you suggesting removing the plastic cover plate, or also the metal plate secured with 10mm bolts?

If only the former, the HV components would seem well-protected; but without the metal cover, what would prevent a spilled drink (or a water from a firefighter's hose) from infiltrating and shorting the 400V DC fuse assembly?

At the very least, some sort of splash-resistant cover would seem in order.


Removing both the plastic cover plate AND the metal cover plate. You appear to be struggling with the concept of "weatherproof". The car could be sitting at the bottom of a lake and the Service Plug still wouldn't short out.

agt
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:58 am
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Re: Using air conditioning to reduce battery pack tempature

Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:33 pm

Removing both the plastic cover plate AND the metal cover plate. You appear to be struggling with the concept of "weatherproof". The car could be sitting at the bottom of a lake and the Service Plug still wouldn't short out.


I'm curious - what in particular makes the connector weatherproof? I admit I haven't opened my own disconnect, and am only basing my questions off images on the net, e.g.

Image
Image

Is there gasket material not displayed here? Otherwise it seems like a couple of cups of liquid could short the two HV legs to the chassis...
2016 S - San Diego (Mira Mesa), CA

TexasLeaf
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:37 am
Delivery Date: 21 Mar 2018
Leaf Number: 303111

Re: Using air conditioning to reduce battery pack tempature

Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:27 pm

agt wrote:
Removing both the plastic cover plate AND the metal cover plate. You appear to be struggling with the concept of "weatherproof". The car could be sitting at the bottom of a lake and the Service Plug still wouldn't short out.


I'm curious - what in particular makes the connector weatherproof? I admit I haven't opened my own disconnect, and am only basing my questions off images on the net, e.g.
Is there gasket material not displayed here? Otherwise it seems like a couple of cups of liquid could short the two HV legs to the chassis...


That latch creates a pressure seal. Plus there are channels to keep any moisture that makes it past the seal from getting to the contactors. The only way you are going to get moisture on those contactors is if you pull the latch and pour water directly on the exposed contactors.

I also might point out that the service plug is located on the OUTSIDE of the car and is not otherwise protected from the elements. Whenever you drive the Leaf through heavy rain or through a big mud puddle the entire battery pack will get drenched, including the service plug. Your entire argument that a little moisture that you might spill through the service plug port is going to short out the service plug defies all logic.

BrockWI
Posts: 684
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:28 am
Delivery Date: 28 Mar 2014
Leaf Number: 423875
Location: Green Bay, WI.
Contact: Website

Re: Using air conditioning to reduce battery pack tempature

Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:56 am

3 kw solar pv - XW6048 - eight L16's
4 ton GSHP
2003 VW TDI 180k miles - 52 mpg lifetime
evse level 2 - Clipper Creek HSC-40
2013 S model with QC package Mar of 2013
@70k miles - 56.56Ahr - 86 SOH - 82.55 Hx - 245 GID

TexasLeaf
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:37 am
Delivery Date: 21 Mar 2018
Leaf Number: 303111

Re: Using air conditioning to reduce battery pack tempature

Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:30 am

BrockWI wrote:Lemon Tea trying to do this as well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HcM47nWEoQ


I think there are things James could have done to significantly improve his results. One thing is that James did not use the air conditioning to cool the battery, he just forced fresh air ambient air down the port. Forced air that's cooled 20 degrees F below ambient, especially during charging with the hood open to release waste heat, should do much better at cooling the battery.

Also those fans probably did more to restrict the air flow than to improve it. Just having the AC in Fresh Air mode with a fully open port should throw plenty of air down the port. Also taping up the exhaust grilles in the trunk should guarantee that most of the Fresh Air goes down the port.

I am planning a structured test this weekend to see how much blowing cold air down the Service Plug port, using the techniques I have outlined, helps cool the battery. I will post my results once I have completed the test.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13281
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Using air conditioning to reduce battery pack tempature

Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:26 am

Even if the plug did not create a water tight seal (it does) realize a bowl over the top of the plug would prevent water from getting in due to pressure, right? Any water would have to rise inside the bowl against that pressure which will be done if enough water is added but realize its not contained so water will just run out thru the bottom making any random spill HIGHLY unlikely to do much of anything.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

agt
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:58 am
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Re: Using air conditioning to reduce battery pack tempature

Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:28 pm

I haven't found precise specs on the Nissan service disconnect, but did locate a similarly designed AMP connector which is only rated at IP5K2, suitable for "Dripping water when tilted up to 15°". The sealed version of the same plug, with integral gaskets, is IP6K9K and is probably fine to 100M as suggested.

http://www.te.com/content/dam/te-com/documents/hybrid-and-electric-mobility-solutions/global/8-1773465-86-sd-125.pdf

I look forward to hearing how the experiments go.
2016 S - San Diego (Mira Mesa), CA

agt
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:58 am
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Re: Using air conditioning to reduce battery pack tempature

Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:45 pm

A friend pointed me towards the Yazaki 7225-5302-51 assembly, which does seem to match what's in my 2016 S.
2016 S - San Diego (Mira Mesa), CA

TexasLeaf
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:37 am
Delivery Date: 21 Mar 2018
Leaf Number: 303111

Re: Using air conditioning to reduce battery pack tempature

Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:23 am

TexasLeaf wrote:I am planning a structured test this weekend to see how much blowing cold air down the Service Plug port, using the techniques I have outlined, helps cool the battery. I will post my results once I have completed the test.


I just finished the test to see if conditioned air blown through the Service Plug port could reduce battery temperature. I travel two identical trips on separate days under identical conditions, the first trip with the Service Plug port bolted closed the second trip with the Service Plug port open. Both days the outdoor air temperature was 82 degrees F for the 1st charge and 87 degrees F for the 2nd charge and with each trip I started out with a fully charged battery.
For the first leg of each trip I traveled 90 miles and CHAdeMO charged until the charged rate tapered to L2 (6.6 kW). For the second leg I returned the 90 miles and CHAdeMO charged again to L2 levels. I limited my speed to 60 mph and I monitored battery temperatures and charge rates using LeafSpy.

For the first trip with the Service Plug port bolted shut, I left the cabin AC temperature set-point at 60 degrees F on the travel legs with the AC in Fresh Air mode. I let the exhaust escape through the grilles in the trunk to simulate pushing air through the Service Plug port in the second trip. I didn’t want the energy consumption of the AC compressor on the travel legs to skew the results but I also did not run the AC during charging sessions.
For the first trip I started out with a battery temperature of 96.2 degrees F. The battery temperature had reached 102.2 degrees F by the time I started the 1st charging session and 117.6 degrees F at the end of the 1st charging session. The battery temperature was at 117.9 degrees F at the start of the 2nd charging session and 126.6 degrees F at the end of the 2nd charging session.
During the 1st charging session the battery reach a peak battery temperature of 118.1 degrees F at 15 kW. During the 2nd charging session the battery reach a peak battery temperature of 127.1 degrees F at 15 kW. Because I was using EVgo chargers that only allow 30 minute charge sessions and required multiple restarts to complete the charge, the battery temperature of 127.1 degrees F and 15 kW were both constant for quite some time.
I started the trip at 5:11 am and I finished the trip at 11:29 am. For the 1st travel leg I consumed 21.1 kWh, for the 1st charge session I added 19.9 kWh, for the 2nd travel leg I consumed 21.1 kWh, for the 2nd charge session I added 21.9 kWh. The peak charge rate for the 1st charge session was 29 kW and the peak charge rate for the 2nd charge session was 20 kW.

For the second trip with the Service Plug port open, I left the cabin AC temperature set-point at 60 degrees F with the AC in Fresh Air mode the whole time. I used the AC fan to push air through the Service Plug port. I covered the wind shield with a sun screen and I opened the hood to release condenser heat during charge sessions.
For the Second trip I started out with a battery temperature of 98.8 degrees F. The battery temperature had reached 102.7 degrees F by the time I started the 1st charging session and 115.1 degrees F at the end of the 1st charging session. The battery temperature was at 114.8 degrees F at the start of the 2nd charging session and 122.0 degrees F at the end of the 2nd charging session.
During the 1st charging session the battery reach a peak battery temperature of 115.6 degrees F at 20 kW. During the 1st charging session the battery reach a peak battery temperature of 122.8 degrees F at 17 kW. Again because I was using EVgo chargers that only allow 30 minute charging and required multiple restarts to complete the charge, battery temperature of 122.8 degrees F and 17 kW were both constant for quite some time.
I started the trip at 5:17 am and I finished the trip at 11:36 am. For the 1st travel leg I consumed 20.0 kW kWh, for the 1st charge session I added 18.7 kWh, for the 2nd travel leg I consumed 22.3 kWh, for the 2nd charge session I added 22.6 kWh. The peak charge rate for the 1st charge session was 29 kW and the peak charge rate for the 2nd charge session was 22 kW.

Even though the charge rates were generally higher for the second trip the total trip time was about the same for both trips. The additional power consumption on the second trip can be accounted for by the AC compressors running during charging sessions. But after two identical trips the battery was almost 5 degrees F hotter on the trip that did not use the Service Plug port with AC in Fresh Air mode to cool the battery.
I think it is pretty conclusive that the AC can be used to help control battery temperature on the 2018 Leaf. This trip only covered two charging sessions but on very long trips with multiple charging sessions, keeping battery temperature down may be far more important than consuming a little extra energy. My test did uncover some other pretty important discoveries but I’m going to start a new thread to discuss those.

Return to “Batteries & Charging”