The 40KWH Battery Topic

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Guzziboy said:
LeftieBiker said:
Doing QCs tends to improve the stats. It will be interesting to see if they stay good, or if they drop in the next few weeks.

It will be interesting to see because the car will be used for short commuting trips in the coming weeks whenever the temps start dropping. I was pretty impressed that the 150 mile range was very accurate even with 90% highway use. Averaged 4.2 miles/kWh in 1200 miles. Around town I can see the range being much higher.

I am seeing 165 to 175 in mixed speed/type driving. Even on the freeways, slow downs are common so averaging as much as 60-65 is a challenge frequently.
 
I am located in Salt Lake City area, and had my 2018 LEAF since February. I am currently at 14k miles and 94.73 SOH. Has anyone dropped their first bar on 2018 LEAF? When can I expect for my first bar to go? At around 92%? I figure at the current rate I should be at around 20k miles and 90 SOH after my first year of ownership.
 
The first bar has always been programmed to stay as long as possible. I think on the 30kwh pack it drops at about 80%. You shouldn't lose it anytime soon, although the SOH will still be dropping.
 
I finally found this thread..sooo many sub-forums on this website. Anyhow reporting in with my baseline numbers;

2018 SL largely garaged on the east side of the home & lots of tree shade & most charging during late night/early morning & all L2 unless I travel a few hundred miles away. I did my 1st 100% charge this morning with 300 miles on the odometer & here's my initial data points;


175 Miles & 32.5% SOC:
AHr= 114.52
SOH= 99.2
HX= 99.70%
344.91V
14 mV cell delta
164 GIDS
94.4F Max pack temp

300 Miles & 100% SOC:
AHr= 114.47
SOH= 99.16%
HX= 100.63%
403.3V
19mV cell delta
502 GIDS
71.6F Max pack temp

The initial set of numbers was after driving the car all afternoon & had just parked in the garage. I think it was low '90sF that day
 
tcherniaev said:
I am located in Salt Lake City area, and had my 2018 LEAF since February. I am currently at 14k miles and 94.73 SOH. Has anyone dropped their first bar on 2018 LEAF? When can I expect for my first bar to go? At around 92%? I figure at the current rate I should be at around 20k miles and 90 SOH after my first year of ownership.

first bar represents about 15% if the pattern holds which means you will lose it around 82% give or take (remember the very top of pack is not accessible)
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
tcherniaev said:
I am located in Salt Lake City area, and had my 2018 LEAF since February. I am currently at 14k miles and 94.73 SOH. Has anyone dropped their first bar on 2018 LEAF? When can I expect for my first bar to go? At around 92%? I figure at the current rate I should be at around 20k miles and 90 SOH after my first year of ownership.

first bar represents about 15% if the pattern holds which means you will lose it around 82% give or take (remember the very top of pack is not accessible)

So, at what point will I be able to get a replacement battery under warranty? Is it 66% SOH or some other number? At the rate I am going, I would imagine I will hit 66% in 2-3 years.
 
tcherniaev said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
tcherniaev said:
I am located in Salt Lake City area, and had my 2018 LEAF since February. I am currently at 14k miles and 94.73 SOH. Has anyone dropped their first bar on 2018 LEAF? When can I expect for my first bar to go? At around 92%? I figure at the current rate I should be at around 20k miles and 90 SOH after my first year of ownership.

first bar represents about 15% if the pattern holds which means you will lose it around 82% give or take (remember the very top of pack is not accessible)

So, at what point will I be able to get a replacement battery under warranty? Is it 66% SOH or some other number? At the rate I am going, I would imagine I will hit 66% in 2-3 years.


As mentioned its roughly 2/3rds or a smidgen less. Its actually when you lose your 4th capacity bar. The actual % varies I think based on individual cell health, balance, etc. Most have seen bars drop in a "relatively" small range.
 
I have done 10k Miles on my 2018 SL now and at 10k Miles here were the stats.

AHr = 109.47
SOH = 94.83
Hx = 109.12
 
2018 leaf sl, purchased march 2018


date ODOMeter Ahr SOH SOC hx GIDS kw temp L2 charges qc
4/1/2018 960 114.8 99.5 96.6 106.9 490 38 62-74 31 4
9/29/2018 8496 111.6 96.7 99.1 108.2 489 37.9 69-71 226 12

could someone explain what is the best data to evaluate battery degradation. Some years ago it was GIDS? :geek:
 
GIDs are best for available range, although GIDs at full charge can also be used for battery health. SOH is usually used because it's the same at different charge levels. Hx seems to have became worthless with the 40KWH pack.

I should do a reading today, although at this point why not wait for October...?
 
Hi!

My degradation looks really bad. I loose 0.01-0.02% every day whether I use the car or not, or whether I charge the car or not, or I leave the car with 100% SOC or only 80% of SOC, doesn't matter. Every day I check, I loose capacity according to Leaf Spy. I have the car for 9 days (~650km on ODO), and I already lost 0.12%. If this is going so, I will loose 3-5% every year, which is too bad. And the battery was never above 33°C, mostly between 20-27°C which should be optimal. The initial SOH when I got the car was also quite low 99.36%, now I'm on 99.24% after 9 days! That's really bad I think. Will it ever stop, or will it continue to drop like this? Now Hx went up above 100%, but as I read here on the forum nobody knows what really Hx means (I also read the Leaf spy help about Hx), or if it even means anything in 2018 Leaf. Now charged to 100% SOC (according to car) leaf Spy reports slight above 97% SOC, and 38.4kWh total capacity.

Some questions regarding Leaf Spy. What is the max number of GIDs available for 2018 Leaf (if SOH=100%)? Is it sure that Leaf Spy capacity and health readings (like SOH) are still correct for 2018 Leaf?

Regards

kovadam
 
kovadam: I would not obsess over what you see. Nothing you write suggests "My degradation looks really bad". Big deal about 0.12%.

As for "if this is going so, I will loose 3-5% every year, which is too bad." 5% per year would be bad but 3%? Tough luck. For comparison, http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=537383#p537383 are stats on my used 24 kWh Leaf that's nearing 5.5 years old. If the rate is 5% capacity loss per year, then assuming Nissan didn't muck w/the capacity bar thresholds, you should be eligible for a new battery within the 8 year/100K capacity warranty.

Bad capacity loss is when someone in Phoenix (car Blue494) lost 4 capacity bars when the Leaf had been out ~21 months: https://web.archive.org/web/20160113132627/http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=228326. They were somewhere past 30% capacity loss.

Please read what Turbo3 wrote re: SOH at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=516444#p516444. Turbo3 is the author of Leaf Spy. SOH does NOT necessarily mean capacity. We have no idea what the number really means and what its precision is or whether any preconditions need to be met for it to be "accurate". Nissan knows.

I also quoted Turbo3 at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=447431#p447431. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=497564#p497564 has some historical posts about the origins of what is rendered as SOH and Hx (formerly Hlth).

About all we can use these numbers for are to compare notes with others and to see if we can get a rough idea when each capacity bar goes away.

Can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.
 
Thanks for the answer and the background research with links! Was great to read about these values. So basically we don't know what these numbers represent, but they have something to do with degradation :).
Now I could fill up the car with 38.4kWh, so I think this is somewhere near the maximum usable capacity. So for degradation I assume I should calculate from this, making 38.4kWh as the max (100%) capacity of my Leaf's pack.
Would be great to know the max capacity Nissan planned for the battery pack. I read somebody calculated 39.46kWh as theoretical max capacity according the cell voltage, data and layout, but I don't think Nissan would allow to use the whole 100% capacity.
 
kovadam said:
Thanks for the answer and the background research with links! Was great to read about these values. So basically we don't know what these numbers represent, but they have something to do with degradation :).
AHr, SOH and Hx tend to get worse over time if you look at the long-term trend, but they will fluctuate a bunch. I can't speak to the '18, but on the '13 and I think to '16, you can manipulate the values up and down, to some degree.
kovadam said:
Now I could fill up the car with 38.4kWh, so I think this is somewhere near the maximum usable capacity. So for degradation I assume I should calculate from this, making 38.4kWh as the max (100%) capacity of my Leaf's pack.
Would be great to know the max capacity Nissan planned for the battery pack. I read somebody calculated 39.46kWh as theoretical max capacity according the cell voltage, data and layout, but I don't think Nissan would allow to use the whole 100% capacity.
AFAIK, Nissan doesn't let the user access all of the pack even on 40 kWh cars. For 24 kWh cars, there was definitely some not usable at the top and bottom.

As for 38.4 kWh capacity or whatever, if you're getting that from Leaf Spy, the kWh values for remaining charge are calculated by gids * 77.5 watt-hours/gid (default value). You can change that and make the kWh value go up and down.

See what Turbo3 has to say about that at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=14285&hilit=gid+energy&start=1770 (having trouble pointing directly to the post due to some bugs with this site). Also, see my comments and speculation at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=481577#p481577.
 
I really think that you folks with the 2018 cars should stop even THINKING about battery "degradation". Don't start out with your brand new car and already having dreams of when you will get a "free" battery... You wont.... I have a 2015 with 50K miles and still have 95% SOH, so do not obsess about a brand new car..

If you got the Leafspy app and got your first numbers (in the area of 99% SOH), great. Just for your own knowledge over time, take a leafspy reading every 3-6 months and write it in a chart for the future (if you bought the car). If you are leasing the car, forget about leafspy period because you will give back the car so soon, you will never witness degradation, or need to address it.
 
And I think that you should stop foisting your "Drive it and forget it" mentality on others with such vehemence. No one uses LeafSpy often because someone told them they have to do it. You have a point to some extent, but you are so far on the other side of the issue that ignoring you is the safest approach for new Leaf drivers.
 
kovadam said:
Hi!

My degradation looks really bad. I loose 0.01-0.02% every day whether I use the car or not, or whether I charge the car or not, or I leave the car with 100% SOC or only 80% of SOC, doesn't matter. Every day I check, I loose capacity according to Leaf Spy. I have the car for 9 days (~650km on ODO), and I already lost 0.12%. If this is going so, I will loose 3-5% every year, which is too bad. And the battery was never above 33°C, mostly between 20-27°C which should be optimal. The initial SOH when I got the car was also quite low 99.36%, now I'm on 99.24% after 9 days! That's really bad I think. Will it ever stop, or will it continue to drop like this? Now Hx went up above 100%, but as I read here on the forum nobody knows what really Hx means (I also read the Leaf spy help about Hx), or if it even means anything in 2018 Leaf. Now charged to 100% SOC (according to car) leaf Spy reports slight above 97% SOC, and 38.4kWh total capacity.

Some questions regarding Leaf Spy. What is the max number of GIDs available for 2018 Leaf (if SOH=100%)? Is it sure that Leaf Spy capacity and health readings (like SOH) are still correct for 2018 Leaf?

Regards

kovadam


What is your "sitting" SOC averaging? As always, the LEAF thrives on being used. So the calendar rate of loss may not change but mileage wise, there seems to be "no upper limit"

Jennifer in Phoenix is just under 95% in hers and she is over 30,000 miles driving in possibly the worst conditions imaginable
 
So the takeaway I get from this thread so far is that a lot of people are seeing roughly 5% loss in SOH after roughly six months of ownership.

But are you also seeing losses in range?

And has anyone here had their 2018 for a full year or close to it? (I forget what month the 18 was released). If so, what SOH losses are you seeing? Losses in range?

Thanks.
 
Kieran973 said:
So the takeaway I get from this thread so far is that a lot of people are seeing roughly 5% loss in SOH after roughly six months of ownership.

But are you also seeing losses in range?

And has anyone here had their 2018 for a full year or close to it? (I forget what month the 18 was released). If so, what SOH losses are you seeing? Losses in range?

Thanks.

I have just under 3½ loss in 8 months and 12,000 miles but the rate has slowed considerably over the last 2 months. Dk if weather had anything to do with it since half of that two months was still quite "summer like."

As far as noticing range loss; This is what I term as the "Tesla factor." when you have more range than you need 99% of the time, its very difficult to quantify a small change. Ask me in a year.
 
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