roperld
Well-known member
When does the battery heater operate? Is it only during charging or some other situation?
When does battery heater operate?
- Thread starter roperld
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bradbissell
Well-known member
Turns on when the battery reaches -4F and then turns off when the battery reaches 14F. I believe I read in the user manual that it works when charge is >30% or plugged in.
SalisburySam
Well-known member
bradbissell said:
Correct. Please see the Owners Manual, pp EV-5/6 for the details, exceptions, and cautions.
WhiteBearLake
Member
The owners manual might indicate that the battery heater comes on at -4F, but my experience doesn't seem to agree.
I don't know of any way to 'see' battery heater current draw so I have no facts to support my observations.
It seems to me that on colder days, perhaps in the 0F to 10F days, that there is a significant unexplained loss in driving range. I have tried to keep climate control use to a minimum and I use the seat heater and steering wheel heater almost consistently. I don't think that my climate control use could account for the large change in driving range so I have often wondered if the battery heater comes on proportional to the outside temperature. The owners manual implies that it is either full on or full off. I don't think the battery warmer shows up on any of the gauges.
Anyone know more about this?
I don't know of any way to 'see' battery heater current draw so I have no facts to support my observations.
It seems to me that on colder days, perhaps in the 0F to 10F days, that there is a significant unexplained loss in driving range. I have tried to keep climate control use to a minimum and I use the seat heater and steering wheel heater almost consistently. I don't think that my climate control use could account for the large change in driving range so I have often wondered if the battery heater comes on proportional to the outside temperature. The owners manual implies that it is either full on or full off. I don't think the battery warmer shows up on any of the gauges.
Anyone know more about this?
ebill3
Well-known member
The range loss you are experiencing during cold weather above -4°F is not due to the battery heater turning on. It is because cold batteries do not deliver the same Wh as do warmer batteries. 2011 LEAFs did not have a battery heater, and they experience the same range loss due to battery temperature as do the 2012s.WhiteBearLake said:
Charging generates some heat, so some folks in the colder climates try to schedule charging to complete just before morning departure. Discharging also generates heat.
EVs with battery temperature management try to keep the pack at an optimal temperature. The LEAF does not have battery temperature management.
LakeLeaf
Well-known member
ebill3 said:
I think it's also true that cold batteries take more kW to charge to the same level as warm batteries?
If that is true, it would be interesting to see charge rate vs battery temp and understand what the temperature is at which the cost of heating to that temperature + the cost of more efficient charging outweights the cost of no battery heating + less efficient charging.
Surely one of our battery experts has this figured out.
planet4ever
Well-known member
That seems like a very odd and, to me, unlikely assertion. First, I'm going to assume you mean kWh rather than kW.LakeLeaf said:
- If by "to the same level" you mean the same percentage of maximum charge, I think everyone agrees that a cold battery can hold less charge. Surely it would take fewer kWh to charge a cold battery to, say, 80% than it would to charge a warm battery to 80%.
- If by "to the same level" you mean to the the point that it can provide the same amount of energy, I think this amounts to a statement that a cold battery has higher internal resistance than a warm battery, which is quite likely true, except that it ignores the bigger factor - that the cold battery can't hold as much energy. So if you are trying to charge to 17kWh you might have to put in 17.1kWh in a warm battery and 17.2kWh in a cold battery. But if you want to charge to 20kWh you could do that with a warm battery by putting in 20.1kWh, but you simply can't get there with a cold battery, so will never put in more than, say, 19kWh. [All numbers are hypothetical examples.]
Ray
kikngas
Well-known member
The owners manual actually says that the energy bars (and presumably the SOC indication) will adjust as the battery temp changes. So if you are showing 10 energy bars with a cold battery and then things warm up, it may slide to 9. And conversely, as battery gets colder, the number of charge bars may move upward, since the charge the battery is able to hold is reduced in the cold, the battery is already closer to full capacity (i.e. show more bars) than when it was warmer.
kikngas said:
I've also read that in the manual. What happens if i fully charge the battery in the garage at 20 celcius(68F) and then move the car outside at -20 celcius(-4F) and let it stay for some days?
Will the voltage and SOC increase over max(4.11)?
kikngas
Well-known member
LeafSwe said:
You are reading my mind. I was wondering as well. And if you say the cold battery cannot deliver the power... then where did it go? I presume it's still in there and that once the battery warms, it would be available again. But, by that time you'd have driven and charged and driven. And battery temp. does not change easily. So I guess it is a moot point. It won't be much of a noticeable effect beyond the predicted range loss due to temp. shown in the range chart... and the other variables.
kikngas
Well-known member
I also got a chuckle out of the manual where it talks about the potential for the battery to freeze and says something about moving the car to a "warmer climate". Well, I'd love to, and ME WITH IT!, but there aren't enough charge stations for me to get very far south 
johnrhansen
Well-known member
-4 degrees F? You mean there are places where people live that get that cold?
kikngas
Well-known member
johnrhansen said:
Yes, but we survive because the buildings are warmer than the parking lots. The car doesn't get to come in.
-4 isn't an every day thing (in MN anyway), but definitely an every year thing, and often for a week at a time. Last year was terribly cold, so this year's gotta be better than that.
johnrhansen
Well-known member
Last January I went to Harbin, China. High, 0 degrees F, low: -20. Coal plant belching out pollution to warm the place. Hell on earth. You all don't have it too bad in MN.
dgpcolorado
Well-known member
^Even here in Colorado I've had days where the high was below zero. But it is very rare except high in the mountains.
My LEAF lives a cushy life because my garage almost never goes below freezing. My car has never been to zero temp bars, as can happen in places like Norway and parts of Canada.
My LEAF lives a cushy life because my garage almost never goes below freezing. My car has never been to zero temp bars, as can happen in places like Norway and parts of Canada.
I have been told by Nissan that the new 30kWh battery in the 2016 Leaf does not have the battery warmer, but they would not tell me why it was removed. I live in Minnesota, so I find this lack of information disturbing. Does anyone know why that feature has been removed?
ebuonaccor
Active member
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2016
- Messages
- 34
Well that's disheartening, my plan is to buy a 2016 SV, it gets cold where I live no battery warmer seems like a poor decision.
alwindsor
Member
gossett said:
Sorry to resurrect an old post, but do you have any more info on this? I'm digging deep to research a battery replacement for my 2016 SL.
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