Later in 2011 : Leaf will come in Cold Weather Spec

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evnow

evnow

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Messages
11,480
Location
Seattle, WA
Leaf will come in special Cold Weather specification trims - later in 2011. From earlier specs, the package might have the following apart from a battery heater.

http://www.nissanusa.com/ev/media/pdf/specs/FeaturesAndSpecs.pdf

cold weather package
- temperature management
- heated seats
- heated steering wheel
- heated mirror
- HVAC duct to rear
Click to expand...
This is what Nissan says ...

For prolonged operation in below freezing climates, Nissan strongly recommends a trim level with Cold Weather specifications that includes a battery heater (late availability). Vehicles not ordered with Cold Weather specifications cannot be retrofitted later.
Click to expand...
Infact, if you search "nissan leaf Cold Weather Spec" you will get various sites that list this trim. Obviously no other information - but confirmation that at later date Nissan will sell a cold weather trim of leaf.

http://www.rocklandnissan.com/new/index.cfm/page/vehicles/action/trim/make/nissan/model/leaf/

Code: 
2011 Nissan LEAF SV 4dr Hatchback
2011 Nissan LEAF SV 4dr Hatchback w/Cold Weather Spec
2011 Nissan LEAF SL 4dr Hatchback 
2011 Nissan LEAF SL 4dr Hatchback w/Cold Weather Spec
2011 Nissan LEAF ETEC 4dr Hatchback
2011 Nissan LEAF ETEC 4dr Hatchback w/Cold Weather Spec
Infact, I speculated earlier that - this is the reason Nissan pushed cold weather states to fall-2011 ordering time. They will probably have the cold weather spec trims by then.
 
If I'm remembering correctly, there was mention of a fan in the battery box of the Leaf, but it was not so much for pulling in air from the outside, but for circulating the air within the pack. Atleast for NiMH batteries, having different temps in the pack can cause all sorts of problems related to charge imbalancing as batteries of different temps can hold different amounts of charge; a recirculating fan would help mitigate some of this temperature imbalance caused by external temps, "good" vs. "bad" cells, charging, regen braking, etc..

Also with NiMH batteries (you'll have to forgive me, my EV experience is limited to my Vectrix scoot), the current recommendation is to avoid regen braking in the first 20% and last 20% of the "usable" charge as you can put in an appreciable amount of current (and thus heat) into the battery at these times when the battery is already a bit stressed. Certainly not an issue for a traffic light here and there, but with my morning commute consisting of 500' of elevation loss, I certainly make use of the hydraulic brakes instead of the regen brake most of the way in. I hope that the Leaf will be a bit smarter in this regard and modulate the regen brake as appropriate (if indeed this is a concern at all for this large of a lithium battery pack).

Living in Seattle, I'm not too worried about the heat and the cold on the pack (103ºF is the all-time-record high and I have an ICE 4x4 truck to drive when it gets down to freezing), but I am curious about how the Leaf will handle pack imbalances and other issues that arise when you've got this many batteries chained together. Will there need to be a daily/monthly/annual equalization charge? Will it self-run, adding an extra hour or two to a standard charge cycle? Is the BMS even smart enough and integrated tightly enough with the pack to tell if one or two cells start to go bad (perhaps it's monitored at the 4-cell/module level)? Another question I have is in regards to "vampire" power draw; the Vectrix draws 100W while plugged in even when it's doing nothing so will the Leaf do the same?

It seems like Nissan has been doing their homework on these batteries for quite a while now so I will be interested to find out how they have addressed these issues. If they've made them transparent to the user, then I think they will have taken a huge step in commoditizing (is that even a word?) electric vehicles.
 
TLeaf said:
If I'm remembering correctly, there was mention of a fan in the battery box of the Leaf, but it was not so much for pulling in air from the outside, but for circulating the air within the pack. Atleast for NiMH batteries, having different temps in the pack can cause all sorts of problems related to charge imbalancing as batteries of different temps can hold different amounts of charge; a recirculating fan would help mitigate some of this temperature imbalance caused by external temps, "good" vs. "bad" cells, charging, regen braking, etc..
Click to expand...

There is no fan. That was just an early rumor. No worries, Lithium is much different from NiMH. ;)
 
Split into a separate topic.

I'd have preferred this cold weather spec for our maritime NW climate here.
 
leaffan said:
TLeaf said:
If I'm remembering correctly, there was mention of a fan in the battery box of the Leaf, but it was not so much for pulling in air from the outside, but for circulating the air within the pack. Atleast for NiMH batteries, having different temps in the pack can cause all sorts of problems related to charge imbalancing as batteries of different temps can hold different amounts of charge; a recirculating fan would help mitigate some of this temperature imbalance caused by external temps, "good" vs. "bad" cells, charging, regen braking, etc..
Click to expand...

There is no fan. That was just an early rumor. No worries, Lithium is much different from NiMH. ;)
Click to expand...


Where was this factually stated from Nissan there is no CIRCULATING fan, as it does make sense in a Lithium pack.
 
EVDRIVER said:
Where was this factually stated from Nissan there is no CIRCULATING fan, as it does make sense in a Lithium pack.
Click to expand...

Negative Ghostrider - the pack is full. :lol:

Nothing formal from Nissan yet. What we do have in glorious high-res are multiple pictures of the pack - there's no room for a fan in there. The cells, snugly nestled in their sardine cans, wouldn't get as much as a light breeze from a fan.

It would be a waste of electricity to have a fan in a sealed battery box when the pack design is based on conducting heat to the steel box bottom (and we do have the conduction design parameter from Nissan personnel - engineering types, not PR folks).

I have a pizza bet with evmaven about the lack of fan in the Leaf battery box - I'll take one from you as well if you want. ;)

http://www.apteraforum.com/showpost.php?p=51323&postcount=27
http://www.apteraforum.com/showpost.php?p=51332&postcount=28
 
I can see space for a fan between packs - though may be not the use - given that metallic conduction is quite good.

ev_battery_100401_05_Low.jpg
 
Maybe we should take bets on AndyH being the first end-user to take his LEAF's battery pack apart? :)

If he does, we will get great pictures and probably cell-test charge/discharge curves as well !
 
garygid said:
Maybe we should take bets on AndyH being the first end-user to take his LEAF's battery pack apart? :)

If he does, we will get great pictures and probably cell-test charge/discharge curves as well !
Click to expand...
SHHHH! It's OK, Nissan - look away. What? No - that's not a 10mm wrench in my hand! Oh, that 10mm wrench...ummm, that's for my scooter - yeah, that's it - my Chinese scooter. :lol:
 
I hope they charge more for the winterized version. I would hate to be buying a car this early and get screwed before I even get my car. :eek:
 
IBELEAF said:
I am now thinking to hold off my current order. Is there more info when it will be available.
Click to expand...

No. Probably worth a call / chat with Nissan.

I was wondering about that too - then decided it was not worth the wait. I think for us here, heated seats would be useful - more than heated battery. Esp. for my short commute. But then, I've not had heated seats ever - so it is no big deal. I think heat seats are more important if the seats are leather - fabric wouldn't be a big problem.

So, now I've the following reasons for leasing
- 3.3 kw charger
- Chademo may not become the L3 std
- Don't like the styling
- Wider choice of cars in 3 years
- No cold weather package
 
Yeah, I noticed mention of the "Cold Weather Package" included in the last disclaimer page of the vehicle online ordering process. The reference was to diminished range as a function of temperature.

Living in the Seattle area we can experience multiple weeks below freezing annually. Based on that, I called my selected dealer rep who had no additional information on availability.

Oh well...a super high torque, 2WD vehicle with ultra-low rolling resistance tires prolly isn't the best suited for icy roads anyway. My plan is to keep it in the temperature controlled garage when it gets frosty out.
 
Marksp said:
Living in the Seattle area we can experience multiple weeks below freezing annually. Based on that, I called my selected dealer rep who had no additional information on availability.
Click to expand...

I think for us in Seattle, the useful part would be the seat heaters. Yes, battery warmer would be useful - but only if you want to drive close to the max range.

Preheating will always be available, though. I plan to use it even when not plugged in (hopefully it will still be available), since my commute is short.
 
I heard this will not be available until later next year so it will be quite a wait, certainly not Q1.
 
you can now also find the dealer model # 17511 shows as a SL with cold weather spec

17211 is a SL std

http://www.hilltopnissan.com/new/index.cfm/page/vehicles/action/veh/year/2011/make/nissan/model/leaf/ADID/USC10NIC161B1/#tabs

is this info any good

japanse website shows "cold weather spec" avail as of april 2011 production
 
Heated seats are more effective than cabin heat because the surface of the material is heated. I would really like a heated seat with a pre-heat option, this does more than a cabin pre-heat just like radiant home heat makes you feel warmer in the same ambient temp in a room because the temp of surfaces radiate heat. When the seats are heated from within they do not require large quantities of ambient heat from the heater to get warm or make the cabin feel warm. Seat heaters can be added aftermarket but it would take more work to have them on the pre-heat mode, assuming that will be offered.
 
I asked in a chat session yesterday ( I know not always accurate) if the cold weather spec model 17511 ( SL with cold) would be able to order in December (my order month)

and the response was yes it will be an option by December ( i am going to have faith they are right) ;)

in Japan there is a price difference between std and cold spec models

according to the Leaf japan site
 

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