JonO
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:39 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Jan 2014
Leaf Number: 003530
Location: Manitoba, Canada

Re: LEAFspy says Bad Cells?! :(

Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:54 pm

Not sure if this was made clear, the red lines are cells shunting of bleeding off voltage to balance, unless there's a bad or weak cells message then it is showing those cells.
I noticed on mine and on someone else's that cell 1 & 48 were weak. These are at either end of the rear part of the pack. It makes me wonder if it is corrosion of the connection, pr if it is related to being at the outside edge, so temp, or air circ may be the issue.
2011 Leaf SL
Silver Gray
12,000 kms, minty!
Using LeafSpy Pro since the launch of the iPhone version (Mar 2015)

Mottyski82
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 2:22 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Apr 2013
Leaf Number: 405969
Location: Hinesburg, VT

Re: LEAFspy says Bad Cells?! :(

Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:21 pm

Yes, I understand about shunts being red. The thing I didn't explain well enough in my original post was that LEAF spy actually colored the words and numbers red when it said @ the bottom that "cells 19 and 40 were "bad". I haven't been exercising the cells to much to low SOC lately, so it has been some time since cell voltages were so low to show weak cells, but the last time I did get the battery so low (a few new cells were registering as weak).

Just so you know, I do agree with previous comments in that the weak cells have plenty of useful life left in them to get me many more thousands of miles before something should be done to address the low cell voltages at low SOC.

Mottyski82
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 2:22 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Apr 2013
Leaf Number: 405969
Location: Hinesburg, VT

Re: LEAFspy says Bad Cells?! :(

Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:32 pm

JonO,

Have comments in this discussion laid your concerns to rest, or do you have any further thoughts about individual cells and their relationship with an overall healthy battery pack?

JonO
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:39 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Jan 2014
Leaf Number: 003530
Location: Manitoba, Canada

Re: LEAFspy says Bad Cells?! :(

Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:00 am

Motty; I'm just getting to understand the "weak cell" message, and have only recently received the LeafSpy Pro, and I don't normally run the pack that low before recharging. So, big picture, if those weak cells limit my range by even 15% it is a big concern. The nearest Level 3 is 130 km away, and the nearest Level 2 is about 115 km away. As it is, I can reach the Level 2 on a good day, but arrive with 1 or 0 bars, at maybe 40 to 20 gid. On the return trip the last 30 km are bush, so not even a 110 volt opportunity to be had! So, if replacing the weak cells can give me another 15 to 20 km range it is huge for me. I will have to track the data more at low SOC to get a better idea of the impact of them. Also I want to run it down and charge back fully a few more times to see if they improve.

One reason I posted it is because a poster on another forum saw that he also had cells 1 and 48 showing up weak. I wonder if it is a design issue? These packs or on either end of the rear module pack. So, maybe a connection issue, or an ambient temp, or an internal air circulation issue.
2011 Leaf SL
Silver Gray
12,000 kms, minty!
Using LeafSpy Pro since the launch of the iPhone version (Mar 2015)

TimLee
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:40 am
Delivery Date: 17 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2026
Location: Chattanooga, TN

Re: LEAFspy says Bad Cells?! :(

Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:57 pm

JonO wrote:...As it is, I can reach the Level 2 on a good day, but arrive with 1 or 0 bars, at maybe 40 to 20 gid. On the return trip the last 30 km are bush, so not even a 110 volt opportunity to be had! So, if replacing the weak cells can give me another 15 to 20 km range it is huge for me. ...

Boy that sure is pushing the range.
Any truck stops or RV parks with 240V outlets where you can use portable L2 EVSE?
With 30 km of not even 120V, I think I would be carrying small Honda generator as a back up.

I can see where a few "bad" cells has much more impact and risk for you than most people.
Will be interesting to see if Nissan will replace them.
Two of my "bad" cells are 1 and 48 too.

You have a really low km 2011 LEAF.
How did you find one with only 1,800 km in Dec. 2013?
Was it a demonstrator that was still unsold?

Tim Lee
Chattanooga, TN

Man. Date: 03/10/11, VIN # 2026
Delivered 05-17-2011
Blue Ocean, 2011 SL-eTec

Mottyski82
Posts: 69
Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 2:22 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Apr 2013
Leaf Number: 405969
Location: Hinesburg, VT

Re: LEAFspy says Bad Cells?! :(

Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:15 pm

I do feel your pain. It is understandable that range loss due to weak cells has a real world impact on some. Everyone has their own specific situation. It does sound like you really are pushing the bounds of what the LEAF can do as a daily commuter. I bet you must be looking forward to longer range batteries, eh?! ;)

GlennD
Forum Supporter
Posts: 1339
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:14 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Jul 2013
Leaf Number: 410357
Location: Anaheim

Re: LEAFspy says Bad Cells?! :(

Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:04 pm

Leaf Spy may just be right but it does not pass the Nissan smell test. No reverse engineered unit will count at Nissan service. They have their own procedures that a bad battery must show up on.
2012 Cayenne Red SL traded for:
2013 Pearl White SL Premium
Traded for a Cirrus White 2014 Mercedes B (totaled)
2016 Urano Gray eGolf SEL w/ drive assist
Loved the VW but it sat too low for my old body
Back to a Cirrus White 2017 B250e

User avatar
JPWhite
Gold Member
Posts: 1777
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:41 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Jul 2011
Leaf Number: 5734
Location: Hendersonville TN
Contact: Website WLM Yahoo Messenger AOL

Re: LEAFspy says Bad Cells?! :(

Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:14 am

RegGuheert wrote: I do believe cell-pair #37 is a bit weaker than the rest, but that didn't stop me from driving over 69 miles last Friday and arriving home with 34% charge remaining. So while the car's instrumentation is reporting a loss of 16% of the original capacity and a "Health" of only 70%, I'm achieving best-ever (by quite a bit) trip performance out of the vehicle. (And, yes, I understand there are many other factors involved!)


Coincidence or not?

I saw a weak cell flagged by LEAFSpyPro and it was cell pair #37.

Here's the screen shot

https://photos.app.goo.gl/LG8qisJ2DtimBDvY6

Lots of cell pairs shunting. Lit up like an xmas tree :-)

The day this occurred I drove from a fully charged battery (topped off at work using a L1 EVSE) down to 1 mile past LBW, 68 miles in total. I lost about 15 GID's in the time I'd normally use 7 or 8 GIDs on the final approach home (it takes 8 GID's from McDonalds to my house, that day it was double). I have only driven the new Lizard pack down to LBW maybe twice since getting it 18 months and 22,000 miles ago. I rarely go below 40% SOC. Charge to 80% overnight and add 10% directly prior to leaving the house.

Is it known if a 2011 LEAF with Lizard pack re-balances with a single charge like the 2013 packs or is the BMS the same as in the original?

I'm going to assume this was just pack imbalance and not a faulty cell. But if the same cell pair comes up repeatedly I will ask the dealer to test the pack for faults. I have 34,000 miles warranty left on the new pack.
--
JP White
http://jpwhitenissanleaf.com
Blue SL-e, Res 4/22/10, Ord 3/29/11, Del 7/30/11
110,000 Miles.
Lost 5 Capacity bars
7/18/13 (29,206), 8/25/14 (51,728), 7/12/15 (71.108), 5/12/16 (88,362), 10/17/16 (96,532)
New Battery 12/3/16 (98,956)

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13085
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: LEAFspy says Bad Cells?! :(

Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:24 am

JPWhite wrote:
RegGuheert wrote: I do believe cell-pair #37 is a bit weaker than the rest, but that didn't stop me from driving over 69 miles last Friday and arriving home with 34% charge remaining. So while the car's instrumentation is reporting a loss of 16% of the original capacity and a "Health" of only 70%, I'm achieving best-ever (by quite a bit) trip performance out of the vehicle. (And, yes, I understand there are many other factors involved!)


Coincidence or not?

I saw a weak cell flagged by LEAFSpyPro and it was cell pair #37.

Here's the screen shot

https://photos.app.goo.gl/LG8qisJ2DtimBDvY6

Lots of cell pairs shunting. Lit up like an xmas tree :-)

The day this occurred I drove from a fully charged battery (topped off at work using a L1 EVSE) down to 1 mile past LBW, 68 miles in total. I lost about 15 GID's in the time I'd normally use 7 or 8 GIDs on the final approach home (it takes 8 GID's from McDonalds to my house, that day it was double). I have only driven the new Lizard pack down to LBW maybe twice since getting it 18 months and 22,000 miles ago. I rarely go below 40% SOC. Charge to 80% overnight and add 10% directly prior to leaving the house.

Is it known if a 2011 LEAF with Lizard pack re-balances with a single charge like the 2013 packs or is the BMS the same as in the original?

I'm going to assume this was just pack imbalance and not a faulty cell. But if the same cell pair comes up repeatedly I will ask the dealer to test the pack for faults. I have 34,000 miles warranty left on the new pack.


There is no easy way to do this but get your LEAF around 70% SOC give or take. start car, let it simmer a bit, take note of #37's position relative to the other cells in the pack. Then find a place where you can do at least 2-3 circles of acceleration for 5-10 seconds continuously. Check the relationship of #37 then.

On your screenshot a delta of 100mV is quite the norm at low SOC's. I have a screen shot (with SOC at 4% ) with a 300+mV delta. Several in the 200's but on my "Turtle" run on my 2018, I went to 1.7% SOC with a delta of 93 mV. In none of these cases did I see a bad cell warning.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 8743 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 111.39 Ahr , SOH 96.49, Hx 114.98
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
Marktm
Gold Member
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 09 Jan 2016
Leaf Number: 022737
Location: Houston, TX

Re: LEAFspy says Bad Cells?! :(

Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:22 pm

This just showed up on LeafSpy. Is there a point at which "weak cells" turn into bad cells and Nissan will honor a defective battery warranty - has anyone had this happen?

IMG_5986.PNG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
2012 Leaf SL; 36,000 miles. Battery replaced November 1st, 2016.

Return to “Batteries & Charging”