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RegGuheert
Posts: 6322
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Solutions to 12 Volt Batteries and Chargers Posted Here

Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:47 am

Welcome to the LEAF forum, country5369!

I'm sorry to hear about your issues with the 12V battery. Frankly, I cannot imagine having any car towed for a 12V battery issue. Even if someone else is footing the bill, towing often results in some sort of damage to the car.
country5369 wrote:I went to leave and the car had a dead battery symbol and no response other than dash lights came on Tuesday night January 16th 2018. I plugged the chargers in and the next morning had green symbols on the chargers but still a dead auxiliary battery symbol. It was the all day with the temperature in a single digit. The car has now been on showing full charge status from the chargers for 48 hrs and the ambient temperature of the cab finally rose to 32* on thursday January 18th in full sun about 11 am when the battery symbol went off and the Leaf operated as it should.
Just one note about this: When I want to charge the 12V battery in our MY2011 LEAF, I DO NOT plug in the EVSE to the car. Why? Because when it is charging, the LEAF's electronics draw more current than the trickle charger can deliver. The result is that the CAR, not the trickle charger, controls the charging voltage. Unfortunately, the car doesn't always do a good job keeping the 12V battery charged. (Based on your post, this is apparently true even in the MY2015 in spite of assurances to the contrary by other members of this forum.)

Unfortunately, your 12V battery may be badly sulfated at this point. My experience is that my desulfating charger takes a long time to break up lead sulfate, but it really doesn't do much in cold weather. IOW, it seems to be much more successful desulfating in warm weather.

Good luck getting your issue resolved quickly and cheaply.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

LeftieBiker
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Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Solutions to 12 Volt Batteries and Chargers Posted Here

Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:57 am

I find that while charging the 12 volt battery doesn't happen fast when the car is also charging, it does happen. I've had no issues with doing both at once.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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RegGuheert
Posts: 6322
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Solutions to 12 Volt Batteries and Chargers Posted Here

Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:03 am

LeftieBiker wrote:I find that while charging the 12 volt battery doesn't happen fast when the car is also charging, it does happen. I've had no issues with doing both at once.
But that depends entirely on whether the car WANTS to charge the car. If it chooses to float the battery at 13.1V (which it normally does), then no real charging will occur. It's easy enough to tell by simply measuring the battery voltage.

And, BTW, slower charging is better unless you are in a big hurry.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

jjeff
Posts: 1700
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Solutions to 12 Volt Batteries and Chargers Posted Here

Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:08 am

Trickle chargers come in different sizes. The real cheap small brick type can be <500ma(1/2 amp) and may not be enough to do much good to a discharged battery in the extreme cold. A better choice is one that will float and also has a maximum charge rate of at least 1000ma(1a).
Note for on the fly jumping I've gotten into the habit of carrying around a small Li jump starter(~$20-$40 on sale). I doubt it would have enough juice to jump-start an ICE(although that's what it's advertised for) but I can attest it works to jump-start a Leaf in the cold with a weak battery.
My '12(original battery) wouldn't start during the first cold snap early this winter. I put it on a regular 12v charger and it was fine about an hour later and I left. I used the car for a couple days after that with no trouble. By day 3 I parked the car outside a store and came out 30 minutes later and it wouldn't start. As I was nowhere near a 120v outlet I pulled out my little Li jump starter, hooked it up to the battery with it's battery clips and 30 seconds later turned my Leaf ON and wala! it started right up.
The next day I visited a local Batteries + and purchased an Optima Yellow Top 51R battery and it's started ever since, even in double digits below 0F. IMO if you have a Leaf with an older 12v battery I'd really think about purchasing a small jump starter and checking it's charge every couple months or so. IMO you don't really need a big jump starter, just something to hold Leaf battery to 12v until it starts and then the big traction battery will take over 12v charging for the remainder of your trip.
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
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GerryAZ
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Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Solutions to 12 Volt Batteries and Chargers Posted Here

Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:41 am

country5369 wrote:2015 Leaf S 12k mi just acquired less than a month ago from coming off lease in Alabama, January 8 2018 "FAILURE FROM AUX BATTERY"

I do not know how long it had "sat" before they shipped it to Chattanooga but I picked it up from Dealer and they said "charged" and ready to go !!!

7 days later I went and visited a friend on Dayton Mountain when a cold spell blew in and the temperature dipped to single digit 2*, Due to it being the first time to pull the mountain I left home with a full charge. I had traveled 14 miles and used 1/2 the main battery. I had brought my main trickle charger and also a motorcycle battery tender I use on my BMW gel battery due to reading such an issue might arise with the Leaf auxiliary battery.

I went to leave and the car had a dead battery symbol and no response other than dash lights came on Tuesday night January 16th 2018. I plugged the chargers in and the next morning had green symbols on the chargers but still a dead auxiliary battery symbol. It was the all day with the temperature in a single digit. The car has now been on showing full charge status from the chargers for 48 hrs and the ambient temperature of the cab finally rose to 32* on thursday January 18th in full sun about 11 am when the battery symbol went off and the Leaf operated as it should.

Nissan does not prepare you for failure in cold temperatures other than state that it will lose range. They do not express any value of the auxiliary battery with this one being a Lit-ion dieing in the cold....they do not with all there gauges give you any status of this battery other than its dead...and guess what ....the car doesn't work.....I did see the manual state a boost but this widow had no car to boost from and the Mtn has no cell or phone service...I do mean country appalachia.

I took it back to the dealer on the 22nd and they kept it for a day returning it to me saying that all checked fine and if it happened again to HAVE IT TOWED IN..........THOUSANDS IN A ALMOST NEW...LOW MILE CAR....TO HAVE TOWED IN.

when asked about the print out about the test....such as an impedance test of the battery after being in a freezer(to replicate the event) They mention they could not do it because Nissan had to approve all testing equipment.....a refrigerator freezer will shed a lot of light but no they pass it back to you.....How can a consumer get anecdote info with the dealer passing the "BUCK"?

Thanks for this thread, got a lot of good info....hopes this helps document the corporate "SLACKING" leading to us "walking" needlessly !!!!


I am sorry for your inconvenience, but welcome to the forum. The warranty on the 12-volt battery is 3 years or 36,000 miles so the dealer will charge a high price for a replacement battery that is not a high quality unit. I recommend that you just replace the battery with a high-quality aftermarket unit rather than fighting with the dealer. I replaced the original batteries in my 2011 and 2015 with Yellow top Optima 51R batteries at my expense even though the originals both failed at less than 3 years so I could have obtained warranty replacements by scheduling visits to the dealer (the failures both happened on weekends). The Optima has much more capacity to handle residual load of the car's electronics while parked and should last a lot longer than the original.

The car charges the 12-volt battery when the traction battery is actually charging, but there is residual load drawn from the 12-volt battery when the charging cable remains connected after charging is complete. Your old 12-volt battery could not handle that residual load. The 2015 Leaf will turn on the system to charge the 12-volt battery from the traction battery when it senses that it is getting low, but the voltage of a weak 12-volt battery collapses too quickly so the system cannot activate. That is what happened in your case so a new 12-volt battery will solve your problem. I also recommend a lithium ion jumper pack (as Jeff mentioned) to carry in any vehicle. The pack I have has started motorcycles, Leafs, and V8 SUVs.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

brycenesbitt
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Re: Solutions to 12 Volt Batteries and Chargers Posted Here

Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:24 am

69800 wrote:I personally am doing a lot of testing with a data logger and will be putting the info and results here for all to see


Could you update the images? The old photobucket image linking does not work any more.

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mgoleta
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Re: Solutions to 12 Volt Batteries and Chargers Posted Here

Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:10 am

I have been watching this thread for a long time. I was wondering how long the factory original might last. My battery is the original (manufacture date of 3/2011). It has always been between 12.0V and 12.5V at the end of a day just before charging. I normally charge my car daily using L1. I have never used a trickle charger on the 12V battery. I am finally getting a little anxious and will likely get a replacement battery rather than pushing my luck anymore.

Has anyone used the Costco Interstate replacement battery, 850251, size 51R?
Does anyone have current recommendations?
Glacial Pearl 2011 LEAF SL, QC delivered 4/21/2011, sold 7/22/2018
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arnis
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Leaf Number: 015896
Location: Estonia, Europe

Re: Solutions to 12 Volt Batteries and Chargers Posted Here

Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:00 pm

Has anybody disconnected current sensor plug? It should bypass 13V charging mode.
Which will charge 12V battery to a much higher state.

It literally takes 20 seconds :)
Short range EVs <30kWh -- Medium range: 30-60kWh -- Long range: >60kWh
Charging: Trickle <3kW -- Normal 3-22kW -- Fast 50-100kW -- Supercharging >100kW

GerryAZ
Gold Member
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Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Solutions to 12 Volt Batteries and Chargers Posted Here

Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:55 pm

arnis wrote:Has anybody disconnected current sensor plug? It should bypass 13V charging mode.
Which will charge 12V battery to a much higher state.

It literally takes 20 seconds :)


I have never tried it because I have no issues with the charging algorithm in my climate (but I agree that it should work and cause the charging voltage to be in excess of 14 volts).

Regarding previous post, an Interstate battery from Costco in size 51R should work OK, but I prefer deep cycle AGM batteries because their characteristics match the deep cycling of the LEAF's 12-volt battery.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

Leaf15
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:51 am
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Re: Solutions to 12 Volt Batteries and Chargers Posted Here

Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:37 pm

I got "46B24L 12V 46Ah 650CCA Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery LiFePO4 for Automotive Car" from ebay and I like it a lot. In addition to the main 46AH battery, it contains emergency 10AH battery you can activate in case of main battery was discharged fully with small switch on the battery. This feature makes carrying lithium battery booster redundant and the weight is only ~9lbs. Exact fit for 51R size battery. Before the change the morning voltage would be 12.3V on OEM battery, on this LiFePO4 - I get 13.35V on first morning and second morning if car is not used and 13.45V right after trip. I have a few battery testers and they show OEM battery is good, but the real life performance suggests otherwise. I doubt it will make it till charger kicks in 5 days, if left unused. I never had 12V battery failure though. The sellers also sell 46B24R, but it has terminals reversed. It fits, but terminals would be a bit off (negative will be at angle) when mounted.
Leaf 2015 SV CPO

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