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sjfotos
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Article on Swapping versus Fast Charging

Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:34 am

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mitch672
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Re: Article on Swapping versus Fast Charging

Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:48 am

yes, most likely the super fast chargers will need a high voltage connections to the grid, such as 13KV feed, 3 phase, to alllow them to work properly. If they ran on 480V, they would each need there own transformer anyway. these things are going to be large.

The Nissan speced 480V 3 phase 50KW Level III fast charger isn't even fast enough for CARB, %80 in 27 minutes is not %80 in 10 minutes, that is 3 times the power, or 150KW charger.
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evnow
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Re: Article on Swapping versus Fast Charging

Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:01 am

Do we really need a 5 minute charge - just because gas is refilled in 5 ?

People willingly wait for several more minutes at costco gas stations ...


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drees
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Re: Article on Swapping versus Fast Charging

Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:21 am

evnow wrote:People willingly wait for several more minutes at costco gas stations ...

No kidding - people often wait 10-20 minutes extra to save $1-2 a fillup there.
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evnow
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Re: Article on Swapping versus Fast Charging

Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:27 am

drees wrote:
evnow wrote:People willingly wait for several more minutes at costco gas stations ...

No kidding - people often wait 10-20 minutes extra to save $1-2 a fillup there.


I usually don't try costco, if there are more than 3 cars waiting. Even that is a minimum of 15 minutes.

Funny thing is, I see a lot of expensive cars in the line ....

ps : I'm hoping all costcos and most Starbucks put charging stations. They will totally recoup the cost in no time :P
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Jimmydreams
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Re: Article on Swapping versus Fast Charging

Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:57 am

evnow wrote:ps : I'm hoping all costcos and most Starbucks put charging stations. They will totally recoup the cost in no time :P


oooOOOOOOOooooo!!!! CostCo yes, but Starbucks?

You're EVIL! Starbucks charging stations. That's ALL I need is more reason to spend time and $$ at Starbucks.
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evnow
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Re: Article on Swapping versus Fast Charging

Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:10 pm

Jimmydreams wrote: oooOOOOOOOooooo!!!! CostCo yes, but Starbucks?

You're EVIL! Starbucks charging stations. That's ALL I need is more reason to spend time and $$ at Starbucks.


All you need is to develop a taste for good coffee. Then you won't spend a penny at starbucks :mrgreen:

Let me help you get started - http://www.coffeegeek.com/.
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KarenRei
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Re: Article on Swapping versus Fast Charging

Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:18 pm

drees wrote:
evnow wrote:People willingly wait for several more minutes at costco gas stations ...

No kidding - people often wait 10-20 minutes extra to save $1-2 a fillup there.


How many people who have a burglar alarm ever actually need it?
How many people who have OnStar end up in a life-threatening accident?
How many people who drive SUVs have them fully occupied on 90% of trips?

People don't buy things because of what they need; they buy them because of what they perceive they need.

Also, for the record: I'd bet you dollars to donuts that 95% of the people in that line are locals, not people on a long trip. People on long trips generally aren't nearly as patient.

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Re: Article on Swapping versus Fast Charging

Tue May 04, 2010 1:18 pm

There was a long debate about swapping on another chat board. I don't see swapping being economically feasible, since it would require a tremendous inventory of batteries (costing thousands of dollars each) at the swap station. All the more so if off-peak charging is used for those batteries; and in the end, the same amount of electricity must be delivered to the station by the grid. And the battery-swapping paradigm more or less requires that the batteries be the property of the swap company, otherwise who would want to give up their own batteries for ones of unknown quality or condition? Better Place is going to need a colossal amount of investment capital, and in the end if fast-charging proves feasible (as I expect it will, even if it takes 15 minutes rather than 5) BP will be left with a "great" idea, a lot of swap stations, and few if any customers. Swapping will probably be limited to purpose-built EVs sold in conjunction with an electricity contract with BP, and this will be at best a part of the market, and at worst a very small part.
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