gemrough
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:12 pm
Delivery Date: 17 Sep 2015

2013 Leaf bar loss.

Mon Oct 05, 2015 4:56 pm

I looked and cant find any posts of people with a 2013 with any bars lost. Is this data posted anywhere?? Search does not turn up anything.

I am having a hard time deciding between a 2013 or a 2015 based on the current wholesale price vs deals on the 15's.

To me it seems Nissan made the 13's battery better (How much I dont know) than the 11//12's, but is it as good as the Lizards (15's). It sounds like the 15's have been holding up really well... but are still a little young.

I'm just afraid Nissan did a quick fix on the 13/14's to keep them from getting free warranty replacements... which makes a 15 look even better.....

Scratching my head.... I need data

gemrough
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:12 pm
Delivery Date: 17 Sep 2015

Re: 2013 Leaf with 1,2,or 3 bars loss?

Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:55 pm

Well I'm doing some research on Manheim to answer my question. Maybe this data will help others. Manufacturer date, service date, mileage, bars, location:

2/13, 5/13, 37,800, 11 Bars, CA
1/13, 3/13, 36,800, 10 Bars, HI
4/13, 5/13, 35,100, 12 Bars, FL
3/13, 4,13, 35,100, 9 Bars, HI
9/13, 9/13, 30,400, 12 Bars, TN
???, 9/13, 29,000, 12 Bars, GA
3/13, 5/13, 26,800, 11 Bars, HI
5/13, 6/13, 26,500, 12 Bars, CA
1/13, ???, 26,000, 11 Bars, TX
4/13, 8/13, 25,000, 12 Bars, CA
6/13, 7/13, 25,000, 12 Bars, GA
8/13, 8/13, 24,000, 12 Bars, GA
?????, 9/13, 24,000, 12 Bars, GA
3/13, 5/13, 22,700, 11 Bars, CA
7/13, 8/13, 21,600, 11 Bars, HI
6/13, 8,13, 21,100, 11 Bars, AZ
1/13, 6/13, 20,100, 11 Bar, HI
3/13, 9,13, 19,500, 11 Bars, HI
3/13, 5/13, 18,800, 11 Bars, HI
10/13, 11/13, 18,300, 12 Bars, HI
2/13, 9/13, 17,300, 11 Bars, HI

And about 90+ more with 12 bars from across the US with 22,000 or less miles. (I got tired of listing them) There were a few HI cars with 16,000 or less with 12 bars...

The Hawaii cars seems odd as the temps there are fairly stable year round and not very high (88 Avr high, 65 Avr Low.) You would think that was ideal???

gemrough
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:12 pm
Delivery Date: 17 Sep 2015

Re: 2013 Leaf with 1,2,or 3 bars loss?

Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:14 pm

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=18269

Has more info......

dhanson865
Moderator
Posts: 1476
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 7:12 am
Leaf Number: 16156
Location: Tennessee

Re: 2013 Leaf with 1,2,or 3 bars loss?

Mon Oct 05, 2015 8:41 pm

gemrough wrote:Well I'm doing some research on Manheim to answer my question. Maybe this data will help others. Manufacturer date, service date, mileage, bars, location:


3/13, 4,13, 35,100, 9 Bars, HI

The Hawaii cars seems odd as the temps there are fairly stable year round and not very high (88 Avr high, 65 Avr Low.) You would think that was ideal???


Charging raises the battery temp above ambient. Parking on asphalt or cement or any other heat soaked environment will raise the battery above ambient even more so.

88 avg high* means that it can be much above 88 and much below 88. Any time it is above 80F you are going to see degradation on a Leaf that isn't parked in air conditioned space.

worst case we've seen for a 2013 is in the wiki as

#43 unknown date of loss, occurred during 2 year lease goodtimessd Chandler/Gilbert, AZ unknown miles at time of loss, currently 28,729 24? months 3/13 2013 model year 405652 unknown date of loss (3 bar loss occurred during previous 2 year lease in AZ). Current City = San Diego (3 bar loss occurred in Gilbert, AZ. Auctioned to San Diego Dealer 5/30/2015, purchased in San Diego 7/22/2015, 2013 SL Trim).


*back to that average high

The average high or low temperature is the normalized high or low temperature for at least a 30 year period. Thus, an average high or low is a statistical average. Records need to be kept at least 30 years for an average high or low temperature to be statistically meaningful.


If there is a noticeable change in climate the average of 30 years might not be anywhere close to the average of the last 3 years.

I'd rather see the temp history for the life of the car graphed than to rely on a single number of "average high temperature"

And I want the graph of the temperature of the battery pack not the temperature taken at the weather station where they avoid heat island effects and ensure good airflow.
2012 Leaf tires 195/65/15 Dunlop Enasave 01 A/S, 15" Rims
wiki/index.php?title=Real_World_Battery_Capacity_Loss
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gemrough
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:12 pm
Delivery Date: 17 Sep 2015

Re: 2013 Leaf with 1,2,or 3 bars loss?

Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:07 pm

I wish I had the exact temps too... oh well.

There are lots of speculation about the 13's battery being lizards or not... to me it looks like they were shifting from the old to the new. Early build dates like 3/13 + 4/13 were old chemistry. From there it looks like a mix of old and new. 8/13 on seem to fair better. At least based on the limited # of cars listed right now. I will keep adding to the list as I can.

Valdemar
Posts: 2367
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: 2013 Leaf with 1,2,or 3 bars loss?

Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:05 pm

gemrough wrote:To me it seems Nissan made the 13's battery better (How much I dont know) than the 11//12's, but is it as good as the Lizards (15's). It sounds like the 15's have been holding up really well... but are still a little young.


Just looking at this data, if it is correct, I can't say these 2013s are much better than say my 2011. As for 2015s, the jury will be out for another year, but the shorter capacity warranty that the 24kWh pack carries as compared to the new 30kWh on 2016s doesn't inspire much confidence.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB)
60.5AHr, SOH 94%, 105k miles
9kW Solar

LeftieBiker
Posts: 6439
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2013 Leaf with 1,2,or 3 bars loss?

Mon Oct 05, 2015 10:23 pm

gemrough wrote:I wish I had the exact temps too... oh well.

There are lots of speculation about the 13's battery being lizards or not... to me it looks like they were shifting from the old to the new. Early build dates like 3/13 + 4/13 were old chemistry. From there it looks like a mix of old and new. 8/13 on seem to fair better. At least based on the limited # of cars listed right now. I will keep adding to the list as I can.


It looks to me like the cutoff date for the worse 2013 packs is 3/13. After that (mine was a 4/13!) they seem to all have 12 bars, while before April they lose them.

I think I know the answer for the Hawaii cars: very warm nights. I know from experience that when the nights stay in the 70s or warmer, the packs don't cool much. I'd rather have it hit 85F in the daytime and then cool to 65, than have it stay in the upper 70's around the clock.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

gemrough
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:12 pm
Delivery Date: 17 Sep 2015

Re: 2013 Leaf with 1,2,or 3 bars loss?

Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:43 am

I know this is somewhat off topic but hobbyguy has lost 6 bars on his 11 so far. To me this is a clear indication that the battery is defective and should qualify for replacement under the 8 year / 100,000 mile warranty! I understand Nissan's decision to not warranty the battery when it lost the 4th bar at 62,000 as they have to draw the line somewhere on the 5 year / 60,000 mile warranty. As Nissan's Andy Palmer said "after 5 years under normal usage you will be at 80% SOH, at 10 years in you would be at 70%. Basically it is nonlinear." Well it looks like hobbyguy's battery is nonlinear.... just the wrong way!

Valdemar
Posts: 2367
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: 2013 Leaf with 1,2,or 3 bars loss?

Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:08 am

Yup, my data so far indicates it is worse than linear (see signature).
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB)
60.5AHr, SOH 94%, 105k miles
9kW Solar

gemrough
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:12 pm
Delivery Date: 17 Sep 2015

Re: 2013 Leaf with 1,2,or 3 bars loss?

Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:01 pm

Valdemar wrote:Yup, my data so far indicates it is worse than linear (see signature).

Which makes the leaf look less and less attractive!!!

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