LeftieBiker
Posts: 6941
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2013 Leaf bar loss.

Tue Oct 04, 2016 8:49 pm

Drive backwards half the time. ;-)
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

MikeMilzz
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:39 pm
Delivery Date: 0- 0-2013

Re: 2013 Leaf bar loss.

Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:55 pm

I tried to read a bunch of the posts in this thread but didn't get through them all, so I apologize if this has been addressed already.

I bought my 2013 Leaf in July of 2015 with about 16000 miles on it. I live in Phoenix but the car came from the San Francisco (previous owner didn't clear their home address out of the GPS) with 12 bars. I figured the car would have a rough time adjusting to the Phoenix heat but what I saw was some pretty serious battery degradation.

I drive about 55mi a day so when I first got the car I was charging to 80% (read that was good for the battery) but running the AC in July and August on highway home was using more juice and left battery really low so I quickly switched to 100% charge nightly. The car is in my garage and charges during the middle of the night using a Clipper Creek charger attached to a 30Amp outlet.

I dropped the first bar in November 2015, and the next one in March 2016. I started to get nervous but figured I'd hit 8 bars well before the 5 year warranty was up so at least there was that. Then in August I dropped my third bar and today I dropped the 4th. The range has been a concern the last few weeks as the gauge is typically 65-70miles when I start it in the morning, but with the Summer heat, AC needs, etc I've been driving in Eco mode and still get the low battery warning before I get home.

My questions are:
1) Is this to be expected? I want to make sure there isn't something else going on that's killing the battery faster than the PHX heat typically does.
2) Is now a good time to get a replacement battery? Is there anything on the horizon that would make me want to delay?

I don't have LeafSpy or any technical details of the battery, so I can't share that data.
I appreciate the knowledge on this board and your advice.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 6941
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2013 Leaf bar loss.

Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:00 pm

Look at the build date on the driver's side door jamb label. You probably have the misfortune to have bought a Leaf built Jan-March of 2013, with what appears to be the old battery chemistry.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

MikeMilzz
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:39 pm
Delivery Date: 0- 0-2013

Re: 2013 Leaf bar loss.

Mon Oct 10, 2016 5:52 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:Look at the build date on the driver's side door jamb label. You probably have the misfortune to have bought a Leaf built Jan-March of 2013, with what appears to be the old battery chemistry.

It was manufactured in March of 2013 and delivered in April.

I've read good things about the lizard batteries holding up in Phoenix so Im hopeful that the new one will do better.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 6941
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2013 Leaf bar loss.

Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:15 pm

MikeMilzz wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:Look at the build date on the driver's side door jamb label. You probably have the misfortune to have bought a Leaf built Jan-March of 2013, with what appears to be the old battery chemistry.

It was manufactured in March of 2013 and delivered in April.

I've read good things about the lizard batteries holding up in Phoenix so Im hopeful that the new one will do better.


There seem to be mixed reviews of the 2015+ Lizard pack in hot climates. If you mean the post-March2013 pack, that is probably also better. Your car isn't likely to do better than a 2011 Leaf pack.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

DaveinOlyWA
Gold Member
Posts: 12073
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2013 Leaf bar loss.

Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:43 am

MikeMilzz wrote:I tried to read a bunch of the posts in this thread but didn't get through them all, so I apologize if this has been addressed already.

I bought my 2013 Leaf in July of 2015 with about 16000 miles on it. I live in Phoenix but the car came from the San Francisco (previous owner didn't clear their home address out of the GPS) with 12 bars. I figured the car would have a rough time adjusting to the Phoenix heat but what I saw was some pretty serious battery degradation.

I drive about 55mi a day so when I first got the car I was charging to 80% (read that was good for the battery) but running the AC in July and August on highway home was using more juice and left battery really low so I quickly switched to 100% charge nightly. The car is in my garage and charges during the middle of the night using a Clipper Creek charger attached to a 30Amp outlet.

I dropped the first bar in November 2015, and the next one in March 2016. I started to get nervous but figured I'd hit 8 bars well before the 5 year warranty was up so at least there was that. Then in August I dropped my third bar and today I dropped the 4th. The range has been a concern the last few weeks as the gauge is typically 65-70miles when I start it in the morning, but with the Summer heat, AC needs, etc I've been driving in Eco mode and still get the low battery warning before I get home.

My questions are:
1) Is this to be expected? I want to make sure there isn't something else going on that's killing the battery faster than the PHX heat typically does.
2) Is now a good time to get a replacement battery? Is there anything on the horizon that would make me want to delay?

I don't have LeafSpy or any technical details of the battery, so I can't share that data.
I appreciate the knowledge on this board and your advice.


*I don't think there is a more misleading statement than that "80%" You drive waaaay more than enough to charge to 100%. The key is minimzing the time at 100% AND at very low SOC. you can mess with timers but I found the easiest way is to plug in when I go to bed. FYI; not using timers reduces 12 volt battery strain

*If I freaked out every time I was 10 miles from home when Low battery warning came on, I would have hit the funny house over 5 years ago.

*get LEAF Spy. it will tell you within a mile or two how far you can really go.

*when driving that far, it really sucks to go slower but go slower. I travel EVERY day to my client's location and some destinations simply don't have convenient charging options. I much rather drive at 60 mph (which is the MAXIMUM speed limit anyway...) and not have to stop than stop somewhere which I used to do but realized its a 10 min detour from my route for 10 mins of charging which dependent on traffic could cause me to be 25-45 mins later getting home. Driving 55 meant getting home 10 mins later...


your choice
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 24,261.3 miles.363 GIDAhr 80.66Hx95.95%kwh28.1QCs205,L2's 226
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

hmmwv
Posts: 76
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:27 am
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: 2013 Leaf bar loss.

Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:50 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
hmmwv wrote:I purchased mine certified preowned about 14 months ago with 67.36 AHr, 100% SOH (18600 miles), it dropped down to about 64 AHr by March this year, and then the degradation just accelerated and now I'm down to 59.01 AHr, 90% SOH. I'm at 31740 miles with 24 QC and 1377 L1/L2 charges. Round trip to work is about 36 miles, mostly highway driving at 55-60mph, I charge at home to 80% on L2 and plug in at work on L1 during the day that may charge to about 90%, I rarely charge to 100%. I think our early summer heat here in Western Washington might have played a role in the capacity loss.


your car is 3 years old so it will have lost some capacity no matter what. your readings are likely lower due to the fact that you rarely charge to 100%. Top end balancing will inflate the readings up to 2-3 points. If I were you I would not worry about it. you are doing it right. top end balancing is good if you need the range but if you don't, then don't worry about it. Your battery will be happier running in the 20-90% SOC range


Just want to report back, after about 4 months and another 5,000 miles, the AHr virtually stayed the same, so at just over 36,114 miles it's 59.73 AHr and 91% SOH. 24QC and 1538 L1/L2. I think the cooler weather helped slowing down the degradation. After all mine is a March 2013 vehicle so it's the old battery chemistry. For the coming summer I plan to find some shade to park the car at work, and only charge at dawn when the temperature is at its lowest. If I can prevent losing my first bar until 40,000 miles I'd be happy.
2013 LEAF SL w/Premium Pkg, Brilliant Silver, 43,125 miles, LeafSpy: 54.85 AHr, SOH 83%, Hx79% as of 09/23/2017, 11 bars

User avatar
IssacZachary
Forum Supporter
Posts: 532
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:57 am
Delivery Date: 15 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 420789
Location: Gunnison, CO, USA

Re: 2013 Leaf bar loss.

Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:42 pm

Sorry. I'm at work and an going to read through this whole thread when I get a chance. But I thought I'd ask a couple questions anyway.

I have a 2013 I bought in November and it still has all 12 bars even with slightly over 40,000 miles. Is that normal? From what I could tell on the navigation it was originally from Utah. I live in Colorado.

Also, what's a lizard pack?
2013 SL 45,000 miles.
12 bars until 44,300 miles on June 2, 2017. :D
11 bars current. :)
The Nissan Leaf is the fourth best long distance car for highway driving. >>Best Long Distance Cars<<

LeftieBiker
Posts: 6941
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2013 Leaf bar loss.

Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:02 pm

It's normal for Leafs in genuinely cool climates to retain 12 bars. The "Lizard pack" is the version that was officially introduced with the 2015 model year. It's more resistant to age-related degradation, and more resistant to moderate heat than the first generation packs. It isn't much more resistant to high heat than older packs. It's possible that the Lizard pack was actually introduced in April of 2013, but there is no documentation for that. It's more likely that the packs made after March 2013 are a large intermediate step between the early, heat and age-sensitive packs (I call the "Canary Packs") and the Lizard pack.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

mutterc
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:30 am
Delivery Date: 15 Mar 2013
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: 2013 Leaf bar loss.

Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:42 pm

My 2013 Leaf is down to 10 bars, in Raleigh. Got it in March 2013 so I assume it has the old chemistry. I may be the only Leaf driver in the city without a garage. 78% SOH, 51.61AHr, 44730mi.

Recently got LeafSpy and have been following this forum, to get ideas about what to do when it's paid off in a month or two. (Also have to take into account what to do with the other family car, a 2008 minivan, over the next few years).

I did get some capacity back by charging to 100% for a balance (I used to very rarely do so), though that was before I got LeafSpy and so I don't know how unbalanced it was. Also increasing tire pressure has brought me from 3.3 mi/kWh to 3.7 or so (without HVAC).

The news about lizard batteries is encouraging, so my tentative plan is to save up what would be the car payment for the next year or so, get a new battery, which would be a 30 kWh lizard one. It sounds like that will hold up better than the original, so unless I get a collapse in efficiency it could serve me well until the minivan's replacement is paid off a few years after that.

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