2013 Leaf bar loss.

[LeftieBiker]

You won't be able to get a 30kwh battery - you'll have to settle for a 24kwh Lizard pack.

[Valdemar]

You won't be able to get a 30kwh battery - you'll have to settle for a 24kwh Lizard pack.

A waiting game may pay off...

[alozzy]

Perhaps not...

https://transportevolved.com/2015/09/11 ... san-leafs/

[Oils4AsphaultOnly]

Perhaps not...

https://transportevolved.com/2015/09/11 ... san-leafs/

From the article: "We should reiterate at this point that what we’ve just said is our own theory"

Once Nissan runs out of refurbished 24kwh packs for warranty repairs, I wonder if they'll be forced to make the 30kwh work with the 2013-2015 leafs (the 2011-2012 will probably be out of warranty by that time)?

[IssacZachary]

The EV speculation game has been going on for over 100 years ever since it was the first type of car to do over 100kph/mile-per-minute.

Will Nissan step up to the plate? Will an aftermarket company do it? Will battery technology advance to the point you can upgrade to over double the capacity for a lot less the price?

I'm sure that if someone really wanted a 30kW Leaf for cheap they'd find a wrecked one for a few grand and transfer over all the necessary parts to their 24kWh Leaf.

[ElectricEddy]

Perhaps not...

https://transportevolved.com/2015/09/11 ... san-leafs/

From the article: "We should reiterate at this point that what we’ve just said is our own theory"

Once Nissan runs out of refurbished 24kwh packs for warranty repairs, I wonder if they'll be forced to make the 30kwh work with the 2013-2015 leafs (the 2011-2012 will probably be out of warranty by that time)?

My guess is they will celll/module replace to bring specs above 8 bars.

[VitaminJ]

Perhaps not...

https://transportevolved.com/2015/09/11 ... san-leafs/

I posted this in another thread:

This doesn't make sense to me. They state that the 24kwh and 30kwh batteries are physically the same dimensions and fit in the same shape hole in the chassis, ok so the 30kwh will "bolt in" to an early car question answered.

They state that the reason it cannot actually be used with the 24kwh Leaf is because the BMS will have to be different. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the BMS inside the sealed battery module with the cells and an independent system from the rest of the car?

And if it's not then shouldn't that just be a matter of also changing out the BMS? Of course Nissan does not want to be bound to spend any more money on warranty replacements than needed, so I would not expect them to state the batteries are interchangeable publicly. I also know Nissan is not stupid and they would not completely re-design the Leaf for a mid-gen battery upgrade so the changes must be modular and most likely minor. For instance when you swap engines in a car you usually also swap the ECU. Maybe you will also need to change the motor controller or something else but it's almost certainly not "impossible."

The software unlock is most likely the biggest hurdle to the whole thing and that is just a matter of time until it's either in the public domain or licensed to a 3rd party/done as a service.

None of us will know until an independent Leaf specialist gets ahold of the first wrecked 30kwh Leaf, which probably won't be long!

My guess is they will celll/module replace to bring specs above 8 bars.

That seems like the most labor-intensive route Nissan can take. Instead, they could remove the intact battery pack from the car and send it to the factory to be mass-recycled with other batteries and then take a new pack off the assembly line and ship it to the dealer to bolt in. What you're saying would require special training at every dealership, training auto mechanics to work on high voltage lithium batteries and electronics, troubleshoot problem cells, and then reassemble and re-seal the pack as good as factory new. That would be like Nissan machining and rebuilding an engine in a Titan pickup truck instead of getting a crate motor from the factory.

[Oils4AsphaultOnly]

My guess is they will celll/module replace to bring specs above 8 bars.

That seems like the most labor-intensive route Nissan can take. Instead, they could remove the intact battery pack from the car and send it to the factory to be mass-recycled with other batteries and then take a new pack off the assembly line and ship it to the dealer to bolt in. What you're saying would require special training at every dealership, training auto mechanics to work on high voltage lithium batteries and electronics, troubleshoot problem cells, and then reassemble and re-seal the pack as good as factory new. That would be like Nissan machining and rebuilding an engine in a Titan pickup truck instead of getting a crate motor from the factory.

I think ElectricEddy meant that Nissan can keep the supply of refurbished 24kwh up by "repairing" the bad batteries they get back as part of the core-exchange. So then it's simply a question of how long that supply will last?

[IssacZachary]

I'm under the impression that Leaf battery cells tend to "wear out" or degrade consistently throughout the whole pack. I'd find it hard to believe that there'd be traction batteries with 12 bar cells and 8 bar cells in the same battery. As far as I understand the whole battery is a wear item. When one cell is at 8 bars, so to speak, the others aren't far behind in degradation. It's not like a motor or engine that you can replace the bearings and couple other wear items and get it refurbished like new.

Ya, it would be cool if you could take two bad batteries, pick out all the good cells or modules and make one good battery out of the two. But I don't see it happening.

[Valdemar]

I'm under the impression that Leaf battery cells tend to "wear out" or degrade consistently throughout the whole pack. I'd find it hard to believe that there'd be traction batteries with 12 bar cells and 8 bar cells in the same battery. As far as I understand the whole battery is a wear item. When one cell is at 8 bars, so to speak, the others aren't far behind in degradation. It's not like a motor or engine that you can replace the bearings and couple other wear items and get it refurbished like new.

Yes and no. Do not forget they are only obligated to bring the battery to 9 bars per the warranty terms. Battery capacity is determined by the weakest module as there is no active balancing in the Leaf. The weakest modules tend to be in the middle of the big/long assembly that goes under the back seat. The battery that just dipped below 9 bars likely has half of its modules good for 9 or maybe even 10 bars. This is likely one of the reasons why they chose 9 bars and not 10 for the refurb battery promise under capacity warranty as they could easily make a 9-bar battery from 2 8-bar ones.

But they also offer new batteries for purchase, so if they stop making 24kWh ones they'd have to make sure the 30kWh ones can be fitted in old cars. On the other hand, there is only a handful of people who buy batteries out of pocket, so they can just say sorry, you're SOL, the battery is no longer available for your car.