How many degrees does each temperature represent

I quick charged 3 times today, 86%, 77%, 40%, temperature bar went to 7 bars after first charge. Then driving a bit after 3rd charge, it went to 8 bars. So what numeral temperature does these represent?

The temp gauge is apparently crap w/the huge overlapping ranges. See http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Battery#Battery_Temperature_Gauge.

You should get Leaf Spy and the appropriate OBD 2 dongle to read the real pack temp.

You can also just assume that more than 6 temp bars is "too hot" and change your charging behavior accordingly, if possible.

LeftieBiker said:

You can also just assume that more than 6 temp bars is "too hot" and change your charging behavior accordingly, if possible.

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From glancing thru my '13 Leaf owner's manual, I see no guidance about anything like that. Other than specific temps to avoid and when the battery heater turns on (on at -1 F, off when it reaches 14 F), the only temp gauge guidance they give is what the normal range is, which is everything in between blue and red, so 3 bars up until thru 10.

Interestingly, on page CH-8, they give an estimate as to how long it'll take to DC FC to reach 80% depending on the number of bars. The fastest is if 6-7 segments are lit.

The warranty booklet gives the most comprensive set of temp warnings

LITHIUM-ION BATTERY
This warranty does not cover damage or failures resulting from or caused by:
Exposing a vehicle to ambient temperatures above 120F (49C) for over 24 hours.
Storing a vehicle in temperatures below -13F (-25C) for over seven days.
Leaving your vehicle for over 14 days where the lithium-ion battery reaches a zero or near zero state of charge.

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whereas the owner's manual doesn't seem to talk about the 120F figure.

LeftieBiker said:

You can also just assume that more than 6 temp bars is "too hot" and change your charging behavior accordingly, if possible.

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You almost would never be able to use your car in many States with that (very) conservative thought process. It is unrealistic in several States.

Evoforce said:

LeftieBiker said:

You can also just assume that more than 6 temp bars is "too hot" and change your charging behavior accordingly, if possible.

Click to expand...

You almost would never be able to use your car in many States with that (very) conservative thought process. It is unrealistic in several States.

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It has proven to be unrealistic to drive, or at least to own, a Leaf in the hotter climates, no? I did write "if possible" but the unpleasant reality is that when the pack gets hot and stays hot, it degrades. That includes the "lizard" pack. The fact that it gets too hot too easily means that the cooling for the pack isn't adequate, not that a too-hot pack temperature is acceptable where the climate is hot.

Cwerdna, I've been reading about numbers of temp bars while charging and about pack degradation for long enough that the "7 bars is too hot" advice seems reasonable to me. If someone finds that they can't keep below 8 temp bars, then they may just as well not worry about it at all...

I've tried to look up this exact question but never got a full answer.

From LeafSpy readings, I've seen...

4 bars to 5 bars is around 55 F
5 bars to 6 bars is around 77 F
6 bars to 7 bars is in the 90's

Here is a table of the temperatures from Wiki (which I got from the service manual.

LeftieBiker said:

Evoforce said:

LeftieBiker said:

You can also just assume that more than 6 temp bars is "too hot" and change your charging behavior accordingly, if possible.

Click to expand...

You almost would never be able to use your car in many States with that (very) conservative thought process. It is unrealistic in several States.

Click to expand...

It has proven to be unrealistic to drive, or at least to own, a Leaf in the hotter climates, no? I did write "if possible" but the unpleasant reality is that when the pack gets hot and stays hot, it degrades. That includes the "lizard" pack. The fact that it gets too hot too easily means that the cooling for the pack isn't adequate, not that a too-hot pack temperature is acceptable where the climate is hot.

Cwerdna, I've been reading about numbers of temp bars while charging and about pack degradation for long enough that the "7 bars is too hot" advice seems reasonable to me. If someone finds that they can't keep below 8 temp bars, then they may just as well not worry about it at all...

Click to expand...

My point is, most people who live in the mid to lower half of the States will not be able to maintain the ideal 6th bar that regions to the North may be able to maintain. Some people may worry that they cannot live up to the very conservative bar that is being promoted and cause more anxiety. The manufacturer has shown where the red zone is and did so as a guide for the operator to follow.

I agree Lefty, that if things are convenient, to give your car a better chance at lasting, especially if you plan on keeping it for many years. In an ideal world the Lizard batteries might ACTUALLY have been more Heat tolerant and those of us that live to the South would be dancing in the streets. I personally counted on, and put my money on, the batteries being more HEAT tolerant. I am very disappointed that they are not.

On a related note, some owners are, and will be kicking themselves, that they babied their cars and endured some of the hassles that go with that, only to find that they will be just out of capacity warranty when they degrade to 8. Many will wish that they drove it like they would have driven any other car. That IS the flipside...

My point is, most people who live in the mid to lower half of the States will not be able to maintain the ideal 6th bar that regions to the North may be able to maintain. Some people may worry that they cannot live up to the very conservative bar that is being promoted and cause more anxiety. The manufacturer has shown where the red zone is and did so as a guide for the operator to follow.

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And my point is that it appears, from the available evidence, that spending a substantial amount of time above six bars, hastens pack degradation. What Nissan marks as the "red zone" does not, in all probability, coincide with the beginning of damage to the pack. My suggestion that the OP consider 7 bars Too Hot does not mean "sell the car now." It means that efforts to minimize time spent at those temps should be made. L-1 charging at night in Hot weather has been working well for me; I don't think I hit 7 bars at all last Summer, despite lots of temps in the 85+F range. L-2 charging late at night would also help. If that can't be done, then we have to accept that the pack is being overheated because of poor design, not conclude that we need to change the meaning of words in order to lower anxiety...

LeftieBiker said:

My point is, most people who live in the mid to lower half of the States will not be able to maintain the ideal 6th bar that regions to the North may be able to maintain. Some people may worry that they cannot live up to the very conservative bar that is being promoted and cause more anxiety. The manufacturer has shown where the red zone is and did so as a guide for the operator to follow.

Click to expand...

And my point is that it appears, from the available evidence, that spending a substantial amount of time above six bars, hastens pack degradation. What Nissan marks as the "red zone" does not, in all probability, coincide with the beginning of damage to the pack. My suggestion that the OP consider 7 bars Too Hot does not mean "sell the car now." It means that efforts to minimize time spent at those temps should be made. L-1 charging at night in Hot weather has been working well for me; I don't think I hit 7 bars at all last Summer, despite lots of temps in the 85+F range. L-2 charging late at night would also help. If that can't be done, then we have to accept that the pack is being overheated because of poor design, not conclude that we need to change the meaning of words in order to lower anxiety...

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It is unclear to me what "change the meaning of words" that you refer to... But it would be interesting if there was documentation from Nissan to support the 6 bar and not above theory and extent of actual damage done at 7 or 8 above. Does it seem logical to keep it as cool as possible while still using it as a normal car? Yes, and that can vary with region.

Evoforce said:

it would be interesting if there was documentation from Nissan to support the 6 bar and not above theory and extent of actual damage done at 7 or 8 above. Does it seem logical to keep it as cool as possible while still using it as a normal car? Yes, and that can vary with region.

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+1 on all of the above.

Unless I'm imagining things, it seems like it's only been within the last year or even 6 months that I've suddenly heard a recommendation of keeping temp bars to below 7 blah blah. I'm not sure who started it or but it seems to keep getting repeated by some person/people...

If there is some official Nissan documentation/recommendation on this subject 7 temp bars or whatever, I'd like to know where that lives.

Unless I'm imagining things, it seems like it's only been within the last year or even 6 months that I've suddenly heard a recommendation of keeping temp bars to below 7 blah blah. I'm not sure who started it or but it seems to keep getting repeated by some person/people...

If there is some official Nissan documentation/recommendation on this subject 7 temp bars or whatever, I'd like to know where that lives.

Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that I already wrote here that this is my interpretation of what I've been reading here about charging conditions and battery degradation over the last few years. There is no Nissan document of which I'm aware. If such a document did exist in their files, I don't think that they'd be making it public, for obvious reasons. So you can give me credit and/or blame me for both this and the Jan-March 2013 build date theory of Leaf pack durability. I don't claim to have Nissan documents to support either one, just circumstantial/anecdotal evidence. I apologize if I gave any other impression.

It would be interesting to have a topic here in which people post both where they live (city, region) and how many battery temp bars are usually showing, plus the highest and lowest temp readings they have seen. They could also post stats like SOH, AH, or just capacity bars and mileage.

LeftieBiker said:

Unless I'm imagining things, it seems like it's only been within the last year or even 6 months that I've suddenly heard a recommendation of keeping temp bars to below 7 blah blah. I'm not sure who started it or but it seems to keep getting repeated by some person/people...

If there is some official Nissan documentation/recommendation on this subject 7 temp bars or whatever, I'd like to know where that lives.

Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that I already wrote here that this is my interpretation of what I've been reading here about charging conditions and battery degradation over the last few years. There is no Nissan document of which I'm aware. If such a document did exist in their files, I don't think that they'd be making it public, for obvious reasons. So you can give me credit and/or blame me for both this and the Jan-March 2013 build date theory of Leaf pack durability. I don't claim to have Nissan documents to support either one, just circumstantial/anecdotal evidence. I apologize if I gave any other impression.

It would be interesting to have a topic here in which people post both where they live (city, region) and how many battery temp bars are usually showing, plus the highest and lowest temp readings they have seen. They could also post stats like SOH, AH, or just capacity bars and mileage.

Click to expand...

I agree that it would be interesting to see that topic and the accompanying information of temperature statistics by forum members. Really, it is sad that we even have to concern ourselves with having to deal with heat degradation or trying to make recommendations based on the lack of heat durability that Nissan continues to NOT effectively address.

If someone wants to start that topic, please go ahead. I'm mired in dealing with my new, expensive Zero motorcycle, which appears to have been a known lemon when it was sold to me by a dealer. Anyway, I suggest a copy & paste-able short questionnaire that people can copy into their replies and fill in the factors mentioned above, like Leaf year, month of manufacture ( two issues with one topic!) QC-equipped or not and if used often, location, climate, max/min temp bars normally seen, max/min occasionally seen, bars, and if available AH, SOH, GIDs... my hands hurt, and I'm going to bed...

cwerdna said:

Evoforce said:

it would be interesting if there was documentation from Nissan to support the 6 bar and not above theory and extent of actual damage done at 7 or 8 above. Does it seem logical to keep it as cool as possible while still using it as a normal car? Yes, and that can vary with region.

Click to expand...

+1 on all of the above.

Unless I'm imagining things, it seems like it's only been within the last year or even 6 months that I've suddenly heard a recommendation of keeping temp bars to below 7 blah blah. I'm not sure who started it or but it seems to keep getting repeated by some person/people...

If there is some official Nissan documentation/recommendation on this subject 7 temp bars or whatever, I'd like to know where that lives.

Click to expand...

Its pretty simple really. Ask a leafer from Washington state what temp bars they get to on a hot summer day with lots of L2 charging. Anything more than that gets you the degradation we see in the south.

Nissan has never owned up to the how hot is too hot issue. I don't know why you would expect them to do it now.

dhanson865 said:

Its pretty simple really. Ask a leafer from Washington state what temp bars they get to on a hot summer day with lots of L2 charging. Anything more than that gets you the degradation we see in the south.

Nissan has never owned up to the how hot is too hot issue. I don't know why you would expect them to do it now.

Click to expand...

Sure, but even WA state has a huge variance in temperatures. And, there's a huge variance in temps in in the SF Bay Area and So Cal. Some parts of CA are milder than some parts of WA.

And, there's the huge ranges of each bar and their overlap. If http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Battery#Battery_Temperature_Gauge is accurate, 6 bars could range from 50 F to 100 F, while 7 could range from 73 F to 117 F. It seems like it's basically a black box as to how many temp bars are visible vs. the actual pack temp.

Take a look at these average high temps by month in the graphs in the middle of each page:
Seattle, WA: https://weather.com/weather/monthly/l/USWA0395:1:US
Spokane, WA (Eastern WA): https://weather.com/weather/monthly/l/USWA0422

These two are pretty hot parts of WA (found them via http://nwpr.org/post/hottest-place-washington-state):
Pasco, WA: https://weather.com/weather/monthly/l/USWA0338
Kennewick, WA: https://weather.com/weather/monthly/l/USWA0205

Concord, CA: https://weather.com/weather/monthly/l/USCA0247:1:US - this city is known to get pretty hot in summers

San Jose, CA: https://weather.com/weather/monthly/l/USCA0993:1:US
95120 zip of San Jose, CA: https://weather.com/weather/monthly/l/95120:4:US - this part is usually noticeably hotter than the usual reported temps for San Jose (usually the news reports downtown for SJ)

San Francisco, CA: https://weather.com/weather/monthly/l/USCA0987 - this is definitely quite far south from WA state, yet SF is consistently very mild compared to some other much hotter parts of the Bay Area, likely due to its ocean proximity
Pacifica, CA: https://weather.com/weather/monthly/l/94044:4:US - also has a mild climate since the Pacific Ocean is one of its borders
Santa Monica, CA: https://weather.com/weather/monthly/l/USCA1024:1:US - in So Cal. Doesn't get very hot, likely again due to its proximity to the ocean

Re: SF vs. hotter parts, in the summer, it's not unusual for some parts to hit 90 F to 100+ F, while city of SF might be in the 60s or 70s.

I just take issue w/recommendations that seemed to recently pop up from thin air, possibly from Leftie, partly because of the lack of official statements/documentation from Nissan + the above huge ranges, overlap + black box.

cwerdna said:

dhanson865 said:

Its pretty simple really. Ask a leafer from Washington state what temp bars they get to on a hot summer day with lots of L2 charging. Anything more than that gets you the degradation we see in the south.

Nissan has never owned up to the how hot is too hot issue. I don't know why you would expect them to do it now.

Click to expand...

Sure, but even WA state has a huge variance in temperatures. And, there's a huge variance in temps in in the SF Bay Area and So Cal. Some parts of CA are milder than some parts of WA.

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Ignore the overlap, pick the coldest city in WA and use that as your recommendation.

Prior to the AZ kerfuffle, Nissan used LA as the 1.0 norm. I'm saying with AZ data in hand we make WA cold city the 1.0.

You can say that is inaccurate dart toss, but I think it's close enough for a practical recommendation.