LeftieBiker
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Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Rookie mistake. Left it at 96 percent charge. Question

Sat Dec 24, 2016 7:23 pm

The battery heater comes on when the pack (not the air temp) reaches single digit Fahrenheit temps. It uses 300 watts, at least with the 24kwh pack. It will run until either the pack warms enough or the pack reaches, IIRC, 30% SOC. Then it shuts off and the car "hibernates."

As for running the heat for hours, or driving the car to get the SOC way down, I'd only worry about doing that in warm weather. An actual SOC of 85-90% should be fine in cool weather.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

arnis
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Leaf Number: 015896
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Re: Rookie mistake. Left it at 96 percent charge. Question

Sun Dec 25, 2016 3:07 am

LeftieBiker wrote:The battery heater comes on when the pack (not the air temp) reaches single digit Fahrenheit temps. It uses 300 watts, at least with the 24kwh pack. It will run until either the pack warms enough or the pack reaches, IIRC, 30% SOC. Then it shuts off and the car "hibernates."

As for running the heat for hours, or driving the car to get the SOC way down, I'd only worry about doing that in warm weather. An actual SOC of 85-90% should be fine in cool weather.


YES. It's fine in cool weather. I would ask others to stop terrorizing rookie with his ultrasmall mistake :lol:

BTW battery heater should be at least 340W. I estimated that using service manuals and acceptable resistance values of the elements.
Leaf uses metric system. Most values are rounded on Celsius scale. -15C should be the exact temperature of the battery temperature sensor.
That still translates to single digit temperature in Fahrenheit.
Short range EVs <30kWh -- Medium range: 30-60kWh -- Long range: >60kWh
Charging: Trickle <3kW -- Normal 3-22kW -- Fast 50-100kW -- Supercharging >100kW

GerryAZ
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Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Rookie mistake. Left it at 96 percent charge. Question

Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:51 am

If it makes you feel better, have a friend turn the car on and run the cabin heater for a couple of hours with windows open, temperature setting at maximum (probably 30 or 35 C), and high fan speed. The HVAC controller will run the resistance heater with that setting (instead of the heat pump) so that will maximize power consumption. There is no reason to have someone drive the car--it is your new car and you want to be the ones driving it.

A friend got a 2015 about the same time as I bought mine. His sat on a dealer lot in Phoenix for several months (probably at full charge to be ready for test drives); I ordered mine and took delivery as soon as it arrived from the factory and went through dealer preparation. LEAF Spy statistics for his battery were rather low compared to mine initially, but they are about the same now after 30,000 miles. Therefore, I think your battery will be fine for 8 weeks in the cool storage location.

Cheers,
Gerry
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

SageBrush
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Location: Colorado

Re: Rookie mistake. Left it at 96 percent charge. Question

Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:28 am

webeleafowners wrote:He folks. We are new owners of a 2016 SV 30KW. Recently read here that it is not a good idea to leave the battery charge to a high level for a long storage period. Our car will be stored for the next 8 weeks at around 7 degrees celcius (about 45 degrees F) and it is at 96 percent. I suppose I could have someone go over and run it down to 80 percent or so but that would be a bit of a pain. How much damage does this do for a period of time like this. Thanks in advance.

John and Angela
This from a person who is pretty obsessive about battery health: I doubt it will have any negative effect at all related to the storage period. The battery has long since cooled down. Charging up to ~ 100% does have a cumulative negative effect, so try to keep that behavior to a minimum possible.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

DaveinOlyWA
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Leaf Number: 314199
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Re: Rookie mistake. Left it at 96 percent charge. Question

Sun Dec 25, 2016 1:55 pm

Hope you have a Merry Christmas and I only have one parting shot in this debate; The high SOC concern has NOTHING to do with temperatures hot or cold so its anyone's guess as to why that keeps coming up. The issue is the time sitting at high voltage. a Deep Freeze would still be significantly above absolute Zero where high voltage might not be so bad...
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 26,100.2 miles.363GID Ahr 79.55Hx95.35%kwh28.1QCs227,L2's 237
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Rookie mistake. Left it at 96 percent charge. Question

Sun Dec 25, 2016 2:13 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:Hope you have a Merry Christmas and I only have one parting shot in this debate; The high SOC concern has NOTHING to do with temperatures hot or cold so its anyone's guess as to why that keeps coming up. The issue is the time sitting at high voltage. a Deep Freeze would still be significantly above absolute Zero where high voltage might not be so bad...


High SOC and high pack temp are two factors that can speed degradation. It is fairly likely that having both of them at once will speed it a lot more, and that just one of them will speed it a lot less.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

DaveinOlyWA
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Posts: 12232
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Rookie mistake. Left it at 96 percent charge. Question

Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:15 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:Hope you have a Merry Christmas and I only have one parting shot in this debate; The high SOC concern has NOTHING to do with temperatures hot or cold so its anyone's guess as to why that keeps coming up. The issue is the time sitting at high voltage. a Deep Freeze would still be significantly above absolute Zero where high voltage might not be so bad...


High SOC and high pack temp are two factors that can speed degradation. It is fairly likely that having both of them at once will speed it a lot more, and that just one of them will speed it a lot less.


of this there is little doubt. If talking a year (don't have a shorter time period) the difference in recovery is 96% at 0º verses 65% at 40º (C of course) but in a limited range EV do we have the luxury of ignoring the things that increase degradation? I can see a lax attitude with a Tesla or even a Bolt, but in the LEAF??

yeah still trying to figure that one out??
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 26,100.2 miles.363GID Ahr 79.55Hx95.35%kwh28.1QCs227,L2's 237
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

EVforRobert
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Location: SF Bay Area

Re: Rookie mistake. Left it at 96 percent charge. Question

Sun Dec 25, 2016 8:46 pm

webeleafowners wrote:He folks. We are new owners of a 2016 SV 30KW. Recently read here that it is not a good idea to leave the battery charge to a high level for a long storage period. Our car will be stored for the next 8 weeks at around 7 degrees celcius (about 45 degrees F) and it is at 96 percent. I suppose I could have someone go over and run it down to 80 percent or so but that would be a bit of a pain. How much damage does this do for a period of time like this. Thanks in advance.

John and Angela



Found a nice paper on this subject

Broussely et al. [28] performed a comprehensive analysis of the degradation of the capacity of LIB with different depths of discharge (monitored from the LIB voltage), which had been stored for a long time at 15– 60°C. A year’s storage at 60 and 30°C led to a capacity loss of 15–20 and 7–8%, respectively, as shown in Figure 11. No unambiguous dependence of the degradation on the depth of discharge was discovered.
italics mine

Reading the graph they gave, degradation at 2 months at 30C was 2-3%, 60C 7-8%.

I wonder if degradation at 7C would be closer to 2% or zero after two months.

[28] M. Broussely, S. Herreyre, P. Biensan, P. Kasztejna, K. Nechev and R. Staniewicz, "Aging mechanism in Li ion cells and calendar life predictions," Journal of Power Sources, Vols. 97-98, pp. 13-21, 2001.
2015 SV LED + Quickcharge Mfg 10/14
61.34 AHr 500 mi. 57.05 AHr 12075 mi. 12/16
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Rookie mistake. Left it at 96 percent charge. Question

Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:33 pm

The only SOC we think may increase degradation is 100%. Was there any specific look at that?
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

SageBrush
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Re: Rookie mistake. Left it at 96 percent charge. Question

Sun Dec 25, 2016 11:45 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:Hope you have a Merry Christmas and I only have one parting shot in this debate; The high SOC concern has NOTHING to do with temperatures hot or cold so its anyone's guess as to why that keeps coming up. The issue is the time sitting at high voltage. .
Do you have references to back up your statement ?

I think you are wrong, but I base my opinion on the wobbly foundation of a couple years of college chemistry
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

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