arnis
Posts: 713
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:21 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 015896
Location: Estonia, Europe

Re: Rookie mistake. Left it at 96 percent charge. Question

Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:50 am

Many charge their Leaf to 100% every night. And the do not see any meaningful faster degradation compared to 80% users.

We are NOT talking about 2011/2012 Leafs and not talking about warm packs.

Keeping charge at 100% does less harm than driving once per day and charging to 100% and keeping it there for the rest of the day.
Therefore those who charge to 100% after every trip should have more degradation than anybody just keeping battery at 100%.

Shelf+cycle degradation vs shelf degradation without cycles. Notice not 80% cycles but full 4.14V cycles.

96% is much less than 100%. Which on its own is far from real 100%.


Like I said, 0.01%-0.1% degradation is expected in those two months.

2½ year Leaf owner, 5% degradation, 45 000 miles, chilly climate.
Short range EVs <30kWh -- Medium range: 30-60kWh -- Long range: >60kWh
Charging: Trickle <3kW -- Normal 3-22kW -- Fast 50-100kW -- Supercharging >100kW

IBeLeaf2
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:13 am
Delivery Date: 20 Feb 2014
Leaf Number: 331893
Location: Nobleboro, ME

Re: Rookie mistake. Left it at 96 percent charge. Question

Sat Dec 24, 2016 2:04 pm

One more opinion, based on my experience.

In the winter, I have always had my battery at 100% whether I leave it for 1 day or 14. But as I live in Maine it is never exposed to hot temps! My battery temp gauge has gotten to the line below the red zone several times after longer trips with multiple Chademo charges at 90F. But it lives near the bottom during the winter. I worry more about the battery heater needing to come on.
Nissan says to keep it plugged in very cold temps. I have no way to keep it plugged in and stop the charging at 60%. Carwings allows one to override a charge timer and START charging but not to stop it.
After almost 3 years and 52,000 miles the battery has not lost a bar. By other measures I estimate having lost 3-5% capacity max.

I know there were many degradation problems with the 2011-13 Leafs. Is this really a concern with the newer batteries though?
Blue SV mfg. 1/14
54,600 miles on 4/4/17, 2315 L2, 145 QC
12 bars 284 GIDS 22kWh 66.904AHr 100%SOH 102.82Hx 395.91V
daily travel 15-125 miles, most months include 200+mile days
TOU rate plan, usually charge to 100% overnight.
4.5KW solar, 20kWh backup

cwerdna
Gold Member
Posts: 6853
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Rookie mistake. Left it at 96 percent charge. Question

Sat Dec 24, 2016 2:56 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:despite what you have read here, no one knows how bad your battery will be when you get home but one thing is for certain. it will be worse off. how much?

you said you can have someone run the battery down for you so I have to ask; what is stopping you? The recommended SOC for long term storage is about 40-50%. I would get that done asap

I agree. Get it done.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

webeleafowners
Posts: 331
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:37 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Oct 2015
Location: Okanagan Valley British Columbia

Re: Rookie mistake. Left it at 96 percent charge. Question

Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:02 pm

cwerdna wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:despite what you have read here, no one knows how bad your battery will be when you get home but one thing is for certain. it will be worse off. how much?

you said you can have someone run the battery down for you so I have to ask; what is stopping you? The recommended SOC for long term storage is about 40-50%. I would get that done asap

I agree. Get it done.


Well, it's probably fine but Ill have a friend of mine stop in and run the heater for 15 or 20 minutes. That'll take the edge off....both the battery and me. Thanks for all the replies. This is a great board.
2015 Smart Electric Drive convertible.
2016 Nissan Leaf SV 30KW
EV only Family...well except for the big diesel motorhome. :shock:

arnis
Posts: 713
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:21 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 015896
Location: Estonia, Europe

Re: Rookie mistake. Left it at 96 percent charge. Question

Sat Dec 24, 2016 4:20 pm

IBeLeaf2 wrote:One more opinion, based on my experience.

In the winter, I have always had my battery at 100% whether I leave it for 1 day or 14. But as I live in Maine it is never exposed to hot temps! My battery temp gauge has gotten to the line below the red zone several times after longer trips with multiple Chademo charges at 90F. But it lives near the bottom during the winter. I worry more about the battery heater needing to come on.
Nissan says to keep it plugged in very cold temps. I have no way to keep it plugged in and stop the charging at 60%. Carwings allows one to override a charge timer and START charging but not to stop it.
After almost 3 years and 52,000 miles the battery has not lost a bar. By other measures I estimate having lost 3-5% capacity max.

I know there were many degradation problems with the 2011-13 Leafs. Is this really a concern with the newer batteries though?



heater will not run until it drops down to around 1 temperature bar. You can't force it on too unfortunately.

I do the same. The colder it is the more often I need 100% charge. And in cold weather almost no degradation.

You can keep it unplugged. If it gets really cold heater will switch on and drain the battery. That requires like -15C for 2days and NO DRIVING.
Short range EVs <30kWh -- Medium range: 30-60kWh -- Long range: >60kWh
Charging: Trickle <3kW -- Normal 3-22kW -- Fast 50-100kW -- Supercharging >100kW

webeleafowners
Posts: 331
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:37 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Oct 2015
Location: Okanagan Valley British Columbia

Re: Rookie mistake. Left it at 96 percent charge. Question

Sat Dec 24, 2016 4:44 pm

arnis wrote:
IBeLeaf2 wrote:One more opinion, based on my experience.

In the winter, I have always had my battery at 100% whether I leave it for 1 day or 14. But as I live in Maine it is never exposed to hot temps! My battery temp gauge has gotten to the line below the red zone several times after longer trips with multiple Chademo charges at 90F. But it lives near the bottom during the winter. I worry more about the battery heater needing to come on.
Nissan says to keep it plugged in very cold temps. I have no way to keep it plugged in and stop the charging at 60%. Carwings allows one to override a charge timer and START charging but not to stop it.
After almost 3 years and 52,000 miles the battery has not lost a bar. By other measures I estimate having lost 3-5% capacity max.

I know there were many degradation problems with the 2011-13 Leafs. Is this really a concern with the newer batteries though?



heater will not run until it drops down to around 1 temperature bar. You can't force it on too unfortunately.

I do the same. The colder it is the more often I need 100% charge. And in cold weather almost no degradation.

You can keep it unplugged. If it gets really cold heater will switch on and drain the battery. That requires like -15C for 2days and NO DRIVING.


So if I read your message right, turning the heater on will not bring the battery down a bit? I just checked the temp where it is and it is minus 1 C.
2015 Smart Electric Drive convertible.
2016 Nissan Leaf SV 30KW
EV only Family...well except for the big diesel motorhome. :shock:

cwerdna
Gold Member
Posts: 6853
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Rookie mistake. Left it at 96 percent charge. Question

Sat Dec 24, 2016 5:31 pm

webeleafowners wrote:Well, it's probably fine but Ill have a friend of mine stop in and run the heater for 15 or 20 minutes. That'll take the edge off....both the battery and me.

That's not going to take it down much. If let's say the cabin heater ran at full 6 kW for an entire 30 minutes, only 3 kWh would've come out of the battery. It may not draw 6 kW the entire or much of the time. There are about 21 to 22 kWh user accessible on a new 24 kwh Leaf.

Perhaps run it for 1 hour or more, or have them drive, esp. on the highway. I'd bring it down to 80% or lower, but that's just me.
Last edited by cwerdna on Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

IBeLeaf2
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:13 am
Delivery Date: 20 Feb 2014
Leaf Number: 331893
Location: Nobleboro, ME

Re: Rookie mistake. Left it at 96 percent charge. Question

Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:06 pm

webeleafowners wrote:
arnis wrote:
IBeLeaf2 wrote:One more opinion, based on my experience.

In the winter, I have always had my battery at 100% whether I leave it for 1 day or 14. But as I live in Maine it is never exposed to hot temps! My battery temp gauge has gotten to the line below the red zone several times after longer trips with multiple Chademo charges at 90F. But it lives near the bottom during the winter. I worry more about the battery heater needing to come on.
Nissan says to keep it plugged in very cold temps. I have no way to keep it plugged in and stop the charging at 60%. Carwings allows one to override a charge timer and START charging but not to stop it.
After almost 3 years and 52,000 miles the battery has not lost a bar. By other measures I estimate having lost 3-5% capacity max.

I know there were many degradation problems with the 2011-13 Leafs. Is this really a concern with the newer batteries though?



heater will not run until it drops down to around 1 temperature bar. You can't force it on too unfortunately.

I do the same. The colder it is the more often I need 100% charge. And in cold weather almost no degradation.

You can keep it unplugged. If it gets really cold heater will switch on and drain the battery. That requires like -15C for 2days and NO DRIVING.


So if I read your message right, turning the heater on will not bring the battery down a bit? I just checked the temp where it is and it is minus 1 C.

I think arnis is referring to the battery heaters not the cabin heater. Over on this coast we do get to -15C every winter. So that's a real possibility for me.
Blue SV mfg. 1/14
54,600 miles on 4/4/17, 2315 L2, 145 QC
12 bars 284 GIDS 22kWh 66.904AHr 100%SOH 102.82Hx 395.91V
daily travel 15-125 miles, most months include 200+mile days
TOU rate plan, usually charge to 100% overnight.
4.5KW solar, 20kWh backup

DaveinOlyWA
Gold Member
Posts: 11806
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Rookie mistake. Left it at 96 percent charge. Question

Sat Dec 24, 2016 7:20 pm

webeleafowners wrote:
cwerdna wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:despite what you have read here, no one knows how bad your battery will be when you get home but one thing is for certain. it will be worse off. how much?

you said you can have someone run the battery down for you so I have to ask; what is stopping you? The recommended SOC for long term storage is about 40-50%. I would get that done asap

I agree. Get it done.


Well, it's probably fine but Ill have a friend of mine stop in and run the heater for 15 or 20 minutes. That'll take the edge off....both the battery and me. Thanks for all the replies. This is a great board.


that is not gonna cut it. I would do no less than 2 hours and even that is barely getting to where you need to be....
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles. 2016 S30; 18,297 miles. 363 GIDs, Ahr 82.34, Hx; 100.00% kwh 28.1 QCs 165, L2's 190
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DaveinOlyWA
Gold Member
Posts: 11806
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Rookie mistake. Left it at 96 percent charge. Question

Sat Dec 24, 2016 7:22 pm

cwerdna wrote:
webeleafowners wrote:Well, it's probably fine but Ill have a friend of mine stop in and run the heater for 15 or 20 minutes. That'll take the edge off....both the battery and me.

That's not going to take it down much. If let's say the cabin heater ran at full 6 kW for an entire 30 minutes, only 3 kWh would've come out of the battery. It may not draw 6 kW the entire or much of the time. There are about 21 to 22 kWh user accessible on a new 24 kwh Leaf.

Perhaps run it for 1 hour or more, or have them drive, esp. on the highway. I'd bring it down to 80% or lower, but that's just me.



yeah, sitting in a garage, its gonna run at 4.5 Kwh (i think that is near the max) but only for 10 mins or so. you are hampered by having an efficient heater. you literally need to set the temp to 90 (or however high it goes) and run it 3-4 hours with all the windows down
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles. 2016 S30; 18,297 miles. 363 GIDs, Ahr 82.34, Hx; 100.00% kwh 28.1 QCs 165, L2's 190
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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