powersurge
Posts: 548
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Battery Health Best Practices Phoenix area owners

Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:39 am

Gentlemen... I think we are getting ridiculous when we are so worried about our baby Leaf so much that we need to get it its own shade tent, etc....

It is a car. The manual talks about not parking in the sun for LIABILITY, so you don't leave it sitting in the sun for a month in the Sahara desert. As a previous poster mentioned, the important thing is the battery temperature gauge... Even in 100 degree weather I have never gotten close to the red part of the temperature scale.

Remember, it is a car, not a baby in an infant stroller..

hpoulter
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:04 pm
Delivery Date: 02 Mar 2017
Leaf Number: 330085

Re: Battery Health Best Practices Phoenix area owners

Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:50 am

Hahahaha I totally agree. I am not concerned with babying it. I will be driving it over 20K miles a year. I just wanted to extend the life as best /easiest as possible. I am not looking to spend a bunch of money. The whole reason I got this car was to stop spending $2,800 a year on gasoline.

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 1042
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Battery Health Best Practices Phoenix area owners

Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:42 pm

I have enjoyed the replies and will attempt to give you some insight to long term LEAF ownership in Phoenix:

1. The 2015 "lizard" battery is a definite improvement for our climate over the original battery in the 2011, but it still degrades some due to time, mileage, and heat. My 2015 has lost some capacity but it has less degradation after 25 months and 36,000 miles than the batteries in the 2011 after 13 months and 17,000 miles (both original and replacement). Based upon discussion in other threads on the forum, it seems that the later 2013s and 2014s do better than the 2011 and 2012 batteries from Japan so I hope that bodes well for you.

2. You will see 8 temperature bars just from normal driving and L1 or L2 charging in June so don't worry about trying to avoid charging when above 7 bars. Use QC if you need to, but try not to charge higher than you need because the temperature increase from QC seems to be more at high SOC. Battery temperature will drop during highway driving (from air flow around the battery case) and increase during slow driving or when you park on hot pavement.

3. The car will shade the battery (and pavement underneath) so try not to move the car to a different parking spot during the day. As you noted, a solar-powered ventilator would just give a path for sand or rain to get inside without doing much good.

4. Try to have the SOC down to 60% or so if you will be parking for extended time (at the airport, for example), but don't be afraid to charge to 100% when you are using the car daily.

5. Look at the various time-of-use residential rates offered by our local utilities and pick the best one for your needs to minimize charging costs.

ENJOY THE RIDE!
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

LeftieBiker
Posts: 5722
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Battery Health Best Practices Phoenix area owners

Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:29 pm

It is a car. The manual talks about not parking in the sun for LIABILITY, so you don't leave it sitting in the sun for a month in the Sahara desert. As a previous poster mentioned, the important thing is the battery temperature gauge... Even in 100 degree weather I have never gotten close to the red part of the temperature scale.


This isn't an ICE car. You are damaging the battery pack long before you hit the Red Zone, unlike an IC engine. Nissan has clearly not told Leaf drivers much at all of use, so if you think of the manual as some silly legal CYA document you are likely to see DEGRADATION in fairly short order.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

SageBrush
Posts: 433
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Battery Health Best Practices Phoenix area owners

Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:32 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
It is a car. The manual talks about not parking in the sun for LIABILITY, so you don't leave it sitting in the sun for a month in the Sahara desert. As a previous poster mentioned, the important thing is the battery temperature gauge... Even in 100 degree weather I have never gotten close to the red part of the temperature scale.


This isn't an ICE car. You are damaging the battery pack long before you hit the Red Zone, unlike an IC engine. Nissan has clearly not told Leaf drivers much at all of use, so if you think of the manual as some silly legal CYA document you are likely to see DEGRADATION in fairly short order.
Yep

The flip side of the user manual and Nissan's approach to the LEAF is this: they are fine with slightly under 35% degradation within the first 5Y/60k miles of ownership for 2011 - 2015 cars, and a whole lot more afterwards. Owners who are fine with that rate of aging can indeed ignore the car's weaknesses and treat it like an ICE beater.

I am not, and so I don't.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

cwerdna
Posts: 6441
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Battery Health Best Practices Phoenix area owners

Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:11 pm

powersurge wrote:Gentlemen... I think we are getting ridiculous when we are so worried about our baby Leaf so much that we need to get it its own shade tent, etc....

It is a car. The manual talks about not parking in the sun for LIABILITY, so you don't leave it sitting in the sun for a month in the Sahara desert. As a previous poster mentioned, the important thing is the battery temperature gauge... Even in 100 degree weather I have never gotten close to the red part of the temperature scale.

Remember, it is a car, not a baby in an infant stroller..

Tell that to the '11 Phoenician Leaf drivers who lost 3 or 4 capacity bars when the Leaf had only been out ~21 months: viewtopic.php?t=10040.

In contrast, IIRC, in the Pacific Northwest, those w/'11 or '12 Leafs w/their crap batteries still had all 12 capacity bars for several years longer and I don't think they started dropping off until at least 40K miles.

I've heard cases of '13 (4/2013 build or later) not losing a CB up there until 70K miles. https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattle ... %22R%22%7D has one guy (unknown build month) who didn't lose a CB on his '13 until 89K miles. He states he's down 2 CBs at 116 K miles on Jan 29, 2017. He also states he uses fast chargers daily.

In contrast, I recall reading of '14 Leaf drivers in hot climates losing 4 CBs so they got their batteries replaced under warranty. I just found viewtopic.php?p=473995#p473995 with a 5/2013 built '13 Leaf (better batteries) in PHX that lost its 4th CB at 31.4K miles about 3 years and 3 months after manufacture.

My 5/2013 built used '13 SV is almost at 42K miles nearing 4 years of age with all 12 CBs still.

Perhaps you don't have a good feel for the insane temps in PHX? Does your area have highs of over 100 F almost every day for months during the summer? Does it remain at over 100 F past 9 pm?

See viewtopic.php?p=307296#p307296, for examples. It starts getting hot much earlier in the year than in my area. It gets WAY hotter than my area. It stays VERY hot at night, unlike my area. Look at the average high temps for May thru Oct at http://www.intellicast.com/Local/Histor ... n=USAZ0166. http://www.intellicast.com/Local/Histor ... n=USNY0833 are yours, for comparison.

I haven't read all the responses carefully, but if I were the OP and wanted to preserve the Leaf's range autonomy, I'd strongly consider air conditioning his garage at home and getting the temp down as low as practically possible. Heck, if I could, I'd want the garage literally to freezing temp or below. That way, it'll take quite awhile for the pack to heat up to ambient temp (or beyond) in the blazing PHX heat.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

hpoulter
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:04 pm
Delivery Date: 02 Mar 2017
Leaf Number: 330085

Re: Battery Health Best Practices Phoenix area owners

Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:00 pm

Air condition my garage?!?!? I have a 3 car garage, it's probably 800 sq ft. Air conditioning it would add hundreds of dollars to the cost of my electric bill and would cost a fortune to upgrade to add this capability. This would completely negate the reason for buying an electric car (to save money). This is a horrendous idea.

I've lived in Arizona most of my life, people that aren't from here have this absurd view of the weather here. It is never over 100F here at night not even close.

cwerdna
Posts: 6441
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Battery Health Best Practices Phoenix area owners

Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:21 pm

hpoulter wrote:Air condition my garage?!?!? I have a 3 car garage, it's probably 800 sq ft. Air conditioning it would add hundreds of dollars to the cost of my electric bill and would cost a fortune to upgrade to add this capability. This would completely negate the reason for buying an electric car (to save money). This is a horrendous idea.

Well, if you don't, your battery's really going to suffer given the temps I've seen there. From the averages I see at http://www.intellicast.com/Local/Histor ... n=USAZ0166, during summer, your battery is not going to cool down very far and likely remain at 80 to 90+ F at night before being heated back up to 100 to 110+ F during the day.

Can you at least install a high cooling capacity wall-type AC (e.g. http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news ... /index.htm) for the garage? Keeping it well below outside air temp would help. That should be cheap to install... but as for your bill, I don't know since I don't know your electric rate schedule.
hpoulter wrote:I've lived in Arizona most of my life, people that aren't from here have this absurd view of the weather here. It is never over 100F here at night not even close.

So, my FB friend's post (I have met him in person via a Priuschat event) at viewtopic.php?p=307296#p307296 are inaccurate? They included photos, in most/all cases. I have visited Vegas in the summer 3x and it's absurdly hot in the day (e.g. 105+ F) and night (e.g. still 90 F or more) during those times.

Hope you can be like viewtopic.php?p=473995#p473995 and lose 4 CBs before capacity warranty expiration, which I think you will. Then you'll have to hope the replacement lasts long enough before you tire of the car/want to replace it. Maybe install garage AC once you reach a hot month w/your replacement battery?

You might find viewtopic.php?f=30&t=9694 interesting, if you hadn't read it already. I was following along when all that stuff was happening and did watch the entire "town hall" meeting video.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Evoforce
Posts: 590
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:58 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Feb 2015
Location: Fountain Hills Arizona

Re: Battery Health Best Practices Phoenix area owners

Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:31 pm

Gerry must be having a little better luck with his Lizard battery than the two we have had placed in our dual 2011 SL's.

We are finding the same degradation as the original batteries. In fact, we were pacing the two identical cars, when only one had the lizard battery installed at the time, and the other still had the original.

The same degradation occurred during that time period up and until the second car needed a Lizard replacement. Leaf 1 was originally from California and the other (Leaf 2) from Arizona.

Leaf 2 from Arizona had the Lizard replacement first, as would be expected, but it allowed us to pace the new battery against the old in (Leaf 1). The Arizona 2011 (Leaf 2) had its battery replaced 12/19/2014 (about 2 years 3 months ago) and currently has 13,212 miles on the Lizard and sits at 84% SOH.

Leaf 2 was hardly driven April-November of 2016 as that was the diagnostic and testing time of the 2012 (Leaf 3).

The 2011 (Leaf 1) from Cali was a Lizard replacement on 1/20/2016 (1 year 2 months ago) and has 12,891 miles and is at 89% SOH.

The testing of the third (2012 Leaf 3) with original battery, was found to also degrade from low 10 bar car to 8 bars within roughly 7 months starting April-November. This 2012 (Leaf 3) was the vehicle previously referenced above and driven for 7 months in 2016 in lieu of driving Leaf 2.

None of these cars were garaged at night since our ownership or possession. Leaf 2 spends its time mostly in the sun, while Leaf 1 parks in a covered parking space at work during the day. Leaf 3 was successfully tested and returned to owner in N.M.
2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi. 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi. on 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.

2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi. 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 miles) Now 35,485 mi.

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