evme
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please explain the charging levels for me

Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:45 pm

Please correct me if any of the info below is wrong.

I read that the Leaf can do Level 1 and Level 2 charging. Level 1 is a standard outlet (120 V), and adds about 4 miles of range per hour of charge, while level 2 is from something like a dryer outlet (240 V) and adds about 20-25 miles of range per hour of charge. Are Level 1 and Level 2 charging available on all model years and trims of the Leaf?

cwerdna
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Re: please explain the charging levels for me

Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:59 pm

evme wrote:Are Level 1 and Level 2 charging available on all model years and trims of the Leaf?

Yes.

See AC level 1 and 2 of http://www.sae.org/smartgrid/chargingspeeds.pdf.

I don't like using mph for charging speeds as how many miles per kWh you achieve will depend on MANY factors, speed and grades up/down being the biggest. Look at how many miles/kWh you're projected to get at viewtopic.php?t=4295 depending on whether you go 35 or 75 mph.

Figure about about 1.1 to 1.2 kWh will make it into the Leaf's battery for every hour of charging at 120 volts at 12 amps.

L2 speed will depend on which on-board charger you have, the supply voltage and your EVSE (viewtopic.php?p=262630#p262630).

https://www.clippercreek.com/faqs/, https://www.clippercreek.com/charging-times-chart/ and http://www.greencarreports.com/news/109 ... ed-to-know may help.

Common commercial power in the US is apparently 208 volts vs. 240 you can get at home. On a 30 amp L2 EVSE at 208 volts, 6.6 kW OBC Leafs (like mine) seem to be only able to pull about 5.7 to 6.1 kW on them. If they had a 240 volt supply, my car should be able to do the full 6.6 kW. Not all of that energy coming out of the wall makes it into the battery due to charging overhead.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
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LeftieBiker
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Re: please explain the charging levels for me

Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:19 pm

Then there is DC Fast charge, aka "QC" or, in the case of the standard the Leaf and a few other cars use, "CHAdeMO." This uses an external high voltage, high amperage charger to directly charge the car's pack, bypassing the onboard charger. It is the fastest way to charge, and can get a 24kwh Leaf from "empty" to 80% charged in about 30 minutes. It is sometimes called "L-3" charging, but many frown on this term - I'm not sure exactly why. Possibly because L-1 and L-2 use the onboard charger.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHAdeMO
Last edited by LeftieBiker on Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

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alozzy
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Re: please explain the charging levels for me

Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:35 pm

To add to what cwerdna said, here's a simple breakdown:

NOTE: assumes a 24 kWh battery pack, 6.6 kW onboard charger, and standard US 120/240V AC power:

  • L1: nominal charge rate is 120V x 12A = 1.4 kW, or roughly 6% of battery pack capacity added per hour. However, with losses, the rate is closer to 5% per hour
  • L2: nominal charge rate is 240V x 27.5A = 6.6 kW, or roughly 30% of battery pack capacity added per hour. Half that rate for Leaf's with 3.3 kW onboard charger
  • L3: charging rate varies, but is typically around 50 kW, or roughly 5% of battery pack capacity added every 2 mins. Requires a CHADEMO port (port on left in image below)

    Image

Note that the charging rate starts to slow down, for L2 and L3, as the battery pack approaches full charge. So, charging to 100% takes longer than expected.
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evme
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Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:30 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: please explain the charging levels for me

Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:22 am

alozzy wrote:To add to what cwerdna said, here's a simple breakdown:

NOTE: assumes a 24 kWh battery pack, 6.6 kW onboard charger, and standard US 120/240V AC power:

[list]
[*]L1: nominal charge rate is 120V x 12A = 1.4 kW, or roughly 6% of battery pack capacity added per hour. However, with losses, the rate is closer to 5% per hour
[*]L2: nominal charge rate is 240V x 27.5A = 6.6 kW, or roughly 30% of battery pack capacity added per hour. Half that rate for Leaf's with 3.3 kW onboard charger


Thanks. Is there a table showing which years/trims have 3.3 kW vs 6.6 kW onboard charger?

cwerdna
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Re: please explain the charging levels for me

Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:37 am

evme wrote:Thanks. Is there a table showing which years/trims have 3.3 kW vs 6.6 kW onboard charger?

2011 - 2012, trim doesn't matter: "3.3 kW" OBC (actually 3.8 kW from the wall at max)

2013 - 2017 S trim WITHOUT charge package: 3.x kW OBC (3.3 or 3.6 kW, whatever... Nissan's been sloppy about input vs. output power to the battery)

2013 - 2017 S trim WITH charge package and ALL 2013 - 2017 SV and SL: "6.6 kW" OBC (6.6 kW from wall at max, 6.0 kW to battery at max)

You can see what I'm talking about re: charge package by going to Specs tab and searching for Charge Package on URLs like these:
http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/ ... -press-kit
http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/ ... -press-kit
http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/ ... -press-kit

Change the year to find some of the others.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

GetOffYourGas
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Re: please explain the charging levels for me

Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:15 am

LeftieBiker wrote:It is sometimes called "L-3" charging, but many frown on this term - I'm not sure exactly why.


It's because that's not how the SAE defines it. L3 was common vernacular for DCQC before SAE defined the terms, so many still use it. Technically the Leaf's DCQC port supports up to L2 DC.

Image

http://insideevs.com/charging-levels-explained-bower/
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EV Fleet:
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evme
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:30 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: please explain the charging levels for me

Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:46 pm

Thanks everyone for your responses, I feel I am much better informed. Now I just have to find the right used Leaf for me!

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Marktm
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Re: please explain the charging levels for me

Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:01 pm

Thanks GetOffYourGas - I did not know the levels were actually defined for AC vrs DC - does make sense.

Of interest (somewhat limited - $$$s) for us 2011 and 2012 owners is some of the more recent chargers/controller that can "home" charge on household outlets up to 7000 watts. These apparently are Level I DC chargers!

http://www.setec-power.com/product/278603-3069417.html
2012 Leaf SL; 36,000 miles. Battery replaced November 1st, 2016.
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