Leaf charging info.

I found this list of charging levels on the RAV4-EV mailing list, and though it might be of interest to the people here.

The 2011 Leaf will come with a 3.3KW charger on board.
The 2012 Leaf will have a 6.6KW charger.
It will be possible to upgrade the 2011 with the faster charger (at extra cost) when the 2012 model comes out.

Level 3 charging requires the more expensive trim level (~800$).
Level 3 charging uses an external charger which provides DC power directly to the pack.
Level one and two both use the on board charger, and thus send AC into the car.

Charge stations installed today should have the capability to provide 6.6KW, so home EVSE (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment) installed for a 2011 Leaf to charge at 3.3KW should work with no changes if you later upgrade your Leaf to the 6.6KW charger.

Charge levels.
Level One Charging uses 110V - 15 A, The Charge Power is 1.4kW and would take about 18 hours to charge.
Level 2 (low) Charging uses 220 V -15A, The Charge Power is 3.3kW and will charge in about 8 hours
Level 2 (high) Charging uses 220 V - 30A, The Charge Power is 6.6kW and will charge in about 4 hours
Level 3 Charging uses 480V - 167A, The Charge Power is 70 - 50 kW and will charge in 20 -50 minutes.

Thanks!

Great if it all comes to pass.
All sounds quite good.
It will be nice to hear it from Nissan, with an estimated price for upgrading the 2010 Leaf's onboard charger.
Any guesses?
$500 to $1000 perhaps?

mywaracfirfoyff said:

Level 3 charging requires the more expensive trim level (~800$).

Click to expand...

This is important - but haven't seen listed anywhere by Nissan. Some saw this while booking ....

The more expensive trim is the SL (basic is the SV), now priced at $1000 extra.
M
Peehaps this is somewhat older estimates and plans?

garygid said:

The more expensive trim is the SL (basic is the SV), now priced at $1000 extra.
M
Peehaps this is somewhat older estimates and plans?

Click to expand...

Possible - I think lvl 3 charger is too important to be left out of base model. Atleast too important not to be listed anywhere.

At one point I think Nissan was considering leaving the L3 charging out completely ... in the US model.

At least this would make the SL package actually worth something.

evnow said:

mywaracfirfoyff said:

Level 3 charging requires the more expensive trim level (~800$).

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Source...RAV4 List.

Publications and info direct from Nissan and Nissan employees shows that Level III capability is in all cars initially - and might only disappear temporarily because we don't yet have a Level III charging standard in the US. NISSAN/TEPCO/CHAdeMO are pushing for the currently installed Level III connector to be the world standard but it's not a done deal yet. If the SAE estimate is correct, a standard could be approved in time for the 2012 MY Leaf.

I suspect this is bad info from the RAV4 list.

My memory is fuzzy, but when I was reserving my Leaf on-line, there was a screen that asked if I wanted the Level 3 charging feature, and I clicked yes. So it was a part of the reservation process for me.

In addition, here is a paste of a chat transcript from Nissan where I asked about the rate of the home chargers. I also have heard the rumor that the initial models won't be able to charge faster than 3.3kW. I guess I could have worded the question better, but here is what Tim said...

Randy:
Okay...As far as the charging goes, I have heard that the initial rollout will require a 15amp 240volt connection at home, but later the charger might be able to charge faster with a higher rated 240V current?

Tim:
That's a good question. Let me check on that for you. This will take a few moment.

Tim:
Yes, the Nissan partner for the home charging dock equipment and installation, Aeronvironment, will be able to install both a 220 V - 30A circuit (will charge in about 4 hours) and 220 V -15A circuits (will charge in about 8 hours). Please give me a moment while I do additional research on that.

Randy:
Okay, thanks.

Tim:
Yes, I was able to confirm that if your service panel can take a higher rated current, Aerovironment can run this circuit to you charging dock. This will allow you to charge the vehicle much faster.

AndyH said:

Publications and info direct from Nissan and Nissan employees shows that Level III capability is in all cars initially

Click to expand...

Do you have a link to the source indicating that it will be in all cars initially?

Thanks!

So, the AV charge-station, if wired to a "larger" (40-amp?) breaker, can be set to "offer" the vehicle up to 30 amps (or so) instead of just offering 15 amps (approx.).

Then, the cars capable of drawing and using the 30 amps (2012 Leaf and upgraded 2011 models) can do so, thus charging in around 4 hours instead of 8 (for the 2011 size battery pack).

Of course, cars that are only built to "sip" 15 amps (2011 Leaf) can continue to do so, even when they were "offered" more.

Sounds GREAT to me.

If there is a larger (2x ?) battery pack available in the future, the 2x pack would charge in about 8 hours from the same AV-installed charge-station.

Speaking of "Leaf charing" I've been wondering if I would sleep better with it charging out in the driveway instead of in the garage. If the battery pack does burst into flames it would be nice to not burn the house down, particularly while everyone is asleep.

There's a smoke/heat detector in the garage that supposedly sounds through the home alarm system, but I'm going to back that up with a second detector.

Hot off the Nissan Chat with operator Edina....

Randy:
I am pretty well up on the type of charger or EVSE that will be installed in my garage at 240v. The question I have revolves around the Level 2 charger that will be built into the 2010 first model Leafs. I have heard rumors on some of the websites that the Leafs sold for the first year or two will only be able to charge at the 240v 3.3kW rate (8 hours for a full charge), and that the 240v 6.6kW rate won't be available in the first models. We have heard that feature won't be available until perhaps 2012. Can you please verify whether the first Leafs delivered will be able to charge at 6.6kW out of the starting gate? Thanks.

Edina:
Now, it is all based on the amps available in the home, the more amps the quicker the car can be charged 15 amps = 3.3 kw 30 amps=6.6 kw.

Randy:
I understand that, but I also understood that the actual charger is in the car for level 2 and the wall-mounted EVSE really just delivers 240v at a specified current to the internal car charger. So you're saying that as far as you know, the car will be able to charge at 6.6kW right out of the gate if the wall connection supports it?

Edina:
Yes, that is correct Randy, the exact details will be available later this year though.

Randy:
That is awesome, thanks very much. One more related question...When going through the reservation process, I signed up for an SL model at the higher price. If a person wanted to charge their Leaf at the Level 3 public charging stations (80% in 26 minutes), does it take the higher-priced SL model to do that or will the lower-priced SV models do Level 3 as well?

Edina:
Both of the models will be able to charge at the same time when using the Level three charging.

If all Leafs can charge at the 6.6 kW rate (30 amps), why did we hear that a 3.3 to 6.6 kW upgrade would be available "later"?

Maybe just conjecture, or perhaps Nissan production decisions in flux?

Randy said:

Hot off the Nissan Chat with operator Edina....
Edina:
Yes, that is correct Randy, the exact details will be available later this year though.

Click to expand...

She doesn't know.

on the PDF for the 2011 NIssan Leaf, the charger is stated to be 3.3KW

and under "Technology", "Facts features and specs", under "Mechanical", it is also listed on the current horrible website

http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/index?dcp=ppn.39666654.&dcc=0.216878497#/leaf-electric-car/specs-features/index

mywaracfirfoyff said:

AndyH said:

Publications and info direct from Nissan and Nissan employees shows that Level III capability is in all cars initially

Click to expand...

Do you have a link to the source indicating that it will be in all cars initially?

Thanks!

Click to expand...

Sure. Take a look at the docs from Nissan in the newcomers forum. The latest is dated March 2010, but all include details of the capabilities. You can also find info about Level III capability on the main Leaf website and in the frequently asked questions there.

We don't have a Level III standard in the US yet, but...
Nissan uses the TEPCO DC Level III charger in Japan
Nissan and TEPCO founded the CHAdeMO Association to lobby for TEPCO being used as the world-wide standard
There are US power companies and charger/interface manufacturers in CHAdeMO
The road-tour cars are all fitted with a TEPCO connector
And the SAE is working on their Level III interface standard - it should be ready for the 2012 model Leaf

No final answer yet, and anything can happen, but there's a LOT of momentum behind the connector that is already installed in the Leaf.

Andy

I saw that check box myself but I did not check the box because from what I thought was it was asking if I wanted the 480amp charger installed on my electric box and not some port to be used for charging. I could be wrong but all can be fixed when the order is put in august.

My understanding is that while the home charging station "just supplies 220V" there is some signaling from the charging station that tells the on board charger how much current it can draw. It's possible there is some dip switch or something the electrician sets internally in the charging station based on the amperage rating of the circuit that supplies it. The decision to go with 20A vs 40A "draw" could be based on calculations that factor in the home's service and how much it is already carrying. If you don't have much reserve in the load calculation they would set the charging station to signal that it can provide 20A.

FWIW there is a similar function on Xantrex/Heart interface inverter-chargers used on RVs.

The "J1772-standard" charging station (EVSE) indicates to the car two things with one "square wave" signal that it produces for the car to examine:
1. A Duty Cycle of about 5% apparently means the EVSE is "alive",
2. Duty Cycle values from about 10% to about 90% apparently indicate the maximum amount of current available through the EVSE, from a low of 10 (or 5?) amps to a high of 80 to 90 amps.

Apparently this is an "analog" scale, so not an exact "number" for the car to use.

It is possible that, as the car starts drawing current, that this duty cycle could decrease, indicating the current "renaining". However, I have seen no description that indicates this function.

The car apparently "loads" a signal line with a resistance where something like this happens (example, guesses only):
Open (high resistance) = no car connected
5000 ohms = not charging yet
2000 ohms = charging
250 ohms = done charging

Although I believe this describes the rather simple "handshake" across the J1772 connector, I have not yet actually seen the latest (2009?) standards.