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EVDRIVER
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Re: Leaf charing info.

Sun May 02, 2010 12:45 pm

garygid wrote:Again, I could be illegal, but most folks, including myself, do NOT WANT illegal.

A legal solution, easily available to all, would be better.

Which would you like to pay (thev$2200 or so) for?

1. AV's EVSE hardwired in your garage. Illegal to un-wire and use elsewhere.

2. The same EVSE hung on a hook in the same spot, easily portable but wired to a plug that plugs into a newly-installed 240v socket there. And, it can be un-plugged and legally used (perhaps with a short adapter) at MANY other locations. Even at the other side of a 3-car garage.

How long is AV's EVSE-to-car cable?




Illegal- ok, so your friends are going to call the electrical police? LOL. Cut a cord, make an adaptor in 5 minutes and be done with it. Peole have been doing it for more than 10 years with no issue, let's not raise one now. Jeeze, do you walk outside the crosswalk lines:)
It looks like one can unplug it from the EVSE and then buy a longer "J1772" fueling cable if needed.
What is the max length available from AV?
Enough to charge a car at the curb?

No, a build-it-yourself cable is probably not legal, since it appears that all the "components", right up to (but not including) the charge socket on the car, must be "listed" (and possibly "stickered").

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planet4ever
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Leaf Number: 1537
Location: Morgan Hill, CA, south of San Jose

Re: Leaf charing info.

Sun May 02, 2010 11:15 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:The boxes are a complete rip off, yes. In a while you will be able to buy these with the cord for about $600 I bet. The ones rated for outdoor use are more costly.

I'm afraid you have totally missed the point here. You will not be charged anywhere near $2200 for "the box". I would be surprised if the hardware part was even close to $600. What you are paying for is service. Here is what Nissan says:
FAQ: We expect the standard home charging dock installation to be around $2,200, but this will vary with the age and configuration of your home.

[highlighting added] Now, listen to what the associated video says:
... a certified electrician will visit your home and determine the best way to install the charging dock. The quote will vary based on the age and configuration of your home. ... Now that you've received your quote it's time to install. ... On the day you choose, the electrician will come to your home and install the charging dock. He will run a dedicated 240 V circuit from your electrical panel to the garage then mount the charging dock. Finally the electrician will run diagnostic tests to make sure your dock is working properly.

This doesn't sound like a rip off to me if the cost includes two home visits by a professional, and running in-wall conduit (as the video shows) from your breaker box to where the EVSE will be mounted.
End of April 2013: Traded my 2011 SL for a 2013 S with charge pkg.

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garygid
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Re: Leaf charing info.

Sun May 02, 2010 11:43 pm

Also needed, any drawings, info, and the fee for the building permit (usually required), and the final inspection by the city.
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
2011 LEAF, sold in 2015
2010 Prius, 2014 silver Tesla S
Nissan EVSE, mod to 240/120v 16A
PU: SDG&E
Solar PV: 33 x 225W -> 7 kW max AC
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garygid
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Re: Leaf charing info.

Mon May 03, 2010 12:16 am

If plug-in installation is allowed:

1. Old style dryer:
To use the old-style NEMA 10-30R (receptacle) dryer "socket" is problematic. Although this 3-pin plug has a Neutral, it does not have a Ground ... that the EVSE most likely "requires". Of course, illegal users might be tempted to use the Neutral as Ground, but that is not usually recommended.

2. New-style (last 14 years) dryer:
The newer 4-pin NEMA 14-30R "socket" (receptacle) is used, which includes both Neutral and Ground pins. This should work fine.

In either case, the 30-amp breaker limits the legal maximum "continuous" current that should be drawn from the circuit to 24 amps (80% of 30 amps).

An adapter could be made to add a ground wire to the 3 wires (minimum #10 gauge wires) coming from an older 3-pin plug, and running them to a 4-pin 50-amp female twistlock.

Then, other similar adapters could be made, so that other sockets could be used.

Finally, the cord to the EVSE could have a male 50-amp twistlock, to mate with the selected adapter.

More later when I get more info from AeroVironment about whether they will install their EVSE in a plug-in configuration.
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
2011 LEAF, sold in 2015
2010 Prius, 2014 silver Tesla S
Nissan EVSE, mod to 240/120v 16A
PU: SDG&E
Solar PV: 33 x 225W -> 7 kW max AC
To Sell: X-treme 5000Li EV motorcycle

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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: Leaf charing info.

Mon May 03, 2010 5:44 am

Even at $2200, with half the cost covered by Obamabucks, for me it's not worth fooling around with some kind of "roll your own" solution. Like all DIY projects around the house you think it's going to cost X and by the time you're done you've way overspent that, not to mention your time and the fact you're left with a half-ass solution, and who knows what that means your warranty coverage on the car. Also I'm not seeing the idea you can build a circuit to signal the charger for $2 in parts from radio shack. I don't think they sell a single component off their back wall for that.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue
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mitch672
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Re: Leaf charing info.

Mon May 03, 2010 6:40 pm

It may be possible, once we see the specs of the Leafs DC port, to charge using this external charger, it's up to 12KW (50AMPs @ 240VAC), output is adjustable, and it's designed for EV battery charging. It has a control buss, some perhaps even a control circuit to interface between ther Leaf and the DC charger would be possible. Also, it's not too expensive. You will have to be knowledge in higher power electrical wiring, and be aware of what you are doing, but it looks like it may be possible. We don't know enough yet about the DC charging port, or the connector/wiring yet to build the required adapter, but at least there is a DC port already. if the Leaf where essentialy empty, it would be possible to charge in 2 hours with this DC charger, if the Leaf's battery pack can handle the current, and if they are going to have a 50KW charger, it should be able to handle it, also it only weighs 42 #, so not too bad to take a long with you as well.

$3267 here, but none in stock: http://www.revoltevc.com/chargers/pfc50.html
$3300 here: http://www.evsource.com/tls_pfc50.php

mfr: http://www.manzanitamicro.com/index.php ... &Itemid=64
pdf manual: http://www.manzanitamicro.com/index.php ... wnload&cid[]=5
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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: Leaf charing info.

Tue May 04, 2010 5:16 am

I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere already so forgive the duplication, but why are there two charging ports on the leaf? I thought the J1772 standard supports 120VAC 15A connections as well as 240VAC and higher voltage DC supply.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue
2016 SV-adjacent May 2016 lost 4th bar March 2018

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garygid
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Re: Leaf charing info.

Tue May 04, 2010 5:32 am

I think that the J1772 supports "Level 1" (120v up to 20 amps) and Level 2 (240v up to 80 amps, or so), but not the higher-power 480v 100-amp (and more) "Level 3" charging needed for 30-minute (or faster charging).

So, one J1772 port (home strength, and more) and one "Level 3" port (industrial strength).

Yes, it does seem a little bit like a waste to use two different ports.
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
2011 LEAF, sold in 2015
2010 Prius, 2014 silver Tesla S
Nissan EVSE, mod to 240/120v 16A
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EVDRIVER
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Re: Leaf charing info.

Tue May 04, 2010 6:59 am

garygid wrote:I think that the J1772 supports "Level 1" (120v up to 20 amps) and Level 2 (240v up to 80 amps, or so), but not the higher-power 480v 100-amp (and more) "Level 3" charging needed for 30-minute (or faster charging).

So, one J1772 port (home strength, and more) and one "Level 3" port (industrial strength).

Yes, it does seem a little bit like a waste to use two different ports.


It makes sense to have them due to cord size.

For those that think the boxes only cost $600 then if that were true they would be available on the open market to purchase at that price. If there is money to be made selling or installing boxes then they will be avaiable on the open market. If you have a panel in your garage it could be as simple as adding the unit right next to it which is not expensive. Nissan is taking extra steps to insure a smooth launch and I,m sure there will be options available at the end of the year. Besides, I'm sure people will buy these for second locations and they will be available for purchase. I have seen some of these listed to sell at $2k without intallation. The portability issue will work itself out soon enough and one the car is launched you guys will see it's not going to be a big issue

mitch672
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Re: Leaf charing info.

Tue May 04, 2010 7:13 am

Its very simple:

The port on the left is for DC charging, it is connected directly to the battery pack. It is probably in the range of 240V-400V DC, we don;t yet know the voltage of the Leafs pack.

the port on the right is the J-1772 AC input port, it connected to the Leafs onboard 3.3KW charger. You supply AC power via the J-1772 connector, this is for Level 1 and Level 2 EVSE's (note, NOT chargers, just a way to connect AC power to the onboard charger)

The DC port is for an external CHARGER, a 3 phase 480V, 50KW unit is being developed, it's output however is DC, and would connect directly to the battery pack via the left DC charging port. I also posted some links above for an external 12KW DC charger, that costs $3300. Of course it needs some connectors and wiring, and a 240V 50A AC Circuit to run the charger, but it would be able to charge the Leaf from nearly empty in about 2 hours.

do not confuse the 2, one is for supplying AC power to the onboard charger, while the other is direct access to the pack for higher power DC charging.
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I Support OpenEVSE: http://code.google.com/p/open-evse/
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