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EVDRIVER
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Re: Leaf charing info.

Tue May 04, 2010 7:14 am

LTLFTcomposite wrote:Even at $2200, with half the cost covered by Obamabucks, for me it's not worth fooling around with some kind of "roll your own" solution. Like all DIY projects around the house you think it's going to cost X and by the time you're done you've way overspent that, not to mention your time and the fact you're left with a half-ass solution, and who knows what that means your warranty coverage on the car. Also I'm not seeing the idea you can build a circuit to signal the charger for $2 in parts from radio shack. I don't think they sell a single component off their back wall for that.



Funny- radio shack sells resistors and the like and it is convenient. If you don't believe me I can dig up such a box I built and also show you the signal circuit which cost under $2 in parts. The circuits are only to tell the wall, box to turn off or on for the most part and don't impact the car. This entire situation is no different then when the avcon chargers came out and it is why people made portable cords and adaptors and pilot circuits fo certain applications a d also why a company sold the avcon female ports for this exact use. I see all of the concerns over the charging boxes as minimal as there will, be easy solutions, the real issue is cost for some. It is really quite basic and everyone is making more out of a silly glorified switch box, but the industry will take advantage of that for as long as they can.

It's also amazing how manzanita micro has stayed in business all these years selling high-power chargers to those without any charge box solution. This issue will be beaten to death and then soon forgotten.

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garygid
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Re: Leaf charing info.

Tue May 04, 2010 9:56 am

It is likely that the Level 3 "charging" is monitored and regulated by an on-board "L3-controller", because only it, not the external L3 unit, can know how much and how fast to charge the battery, and when to stop.

The Leaf needs to be monitoring the cells, and protecting the health of the battery.

I will be quite suprised if the Leaf's battery buss is connected directly to the Leaf's L3 onboard connector. Most likely the "direct" connection, if any, is made only after some "protective" circuitry has verified the external L3 device's capabilities. I doubt it is a "dumb" connect-any-charger arrangement.

In operation, if the external L3 power gets connected "directly" to the battery, and a vehicle's battery pack might be any chemistry or voltage, the L3's DC voltage will need to be variable, perhaps from perhaps 50 to 500 (or more?) volts, and I have not yet heard of a voltage RANGE spec, just the 480 volts.

Also, I thought that some varient of the L3 "station" could provide 480v 3-phase to the vehicle. But, the Leaf's L3 connector appears to have only two (not 3) power (hi-current) connections.

So, clearly I do not yet know enough about the proposed "standard".
Does anybody have a reference (in English)?
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mitch672
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Re: Leaf charing info.

Tue May 04, 2010 10:11 am

garygid, it is very likely the Level 3 DC port is directly connected to the pack (through some fuses or a 2 pole circuit breaker), and there are some low voltage signalling wires from the onboard BMS (Battery Management System) that "talk" to the DC charger, it really is not as complicated as you might think. I'm sure any number of DC chargers will be able to be fitted to the Leaf, with the proper control interface. Nissan might not want people to use the DC charging port with homebrew chargers,but it is going to happen, you can see you get a lot better value for your $3300 (probably $4k with cabling, plugs, etc needed to get it working) with a "real" 12KW DC charger, than with the estimated $2200 "EVSE" + including installation, they want to sell us.

I am glad I will not be getting a Leaf in the december first shipment, this will allow time for all of those western pioneers to figure out the DC charging port and come up with ways of using the manzanitamicro PFC-50. 2 hour charging will be sweet, if you have a 240V 50A dryer outlet/power availble (to run the PFC-50)

http://www.manzanitamicro.com/index.php ... &Itemid=64
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I Support OpenEVSE: http://code.google.com/p/open-evse/
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palmermd
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Re: Leaf charing info.

Tue May 04, 2010 10:32 am

mitch672 wrote:garygid, it is very likely the Level 3 DC port is directly connected to the pack (through some fuses or a 2 pole circuit breaker), and there are some low voltage signalling wires from the onboard BMS (Battery Management System) that "talk" to the DC charger, it really is not as complicated as you might think. I'm sure any number of DC chargers will be able to be fitted to the Leaf, with the proper control interface. Nissan might not want people to use the DC charging port with homebrew chargers,but it is going to happen, you can see you get a lot better value for your $3300 (probably $4k with cabling, plugs, etc needed to get it working) with a "real" 12KW DC charger, than with the estimated $2200 "EVSE" + including installation, they want to sell us.

I am glad I will not be getting a Leaf in the december first shipment, this will allow time for all of those western pioneers to figure out the DC charging port and come up with ways of using the manzanitamicro PFC-50. 2 hour charging will be sweet, if you have a 240V 50A dryer outlet/power availble (to run the PFC-50)

http://www.manzanitamicro.com/index.php ... &Itemid=64


I suspect that your "western pioneers" will be Rich Rudman himself. If I were him I'd design a circuit to work with my chargers to allow them to communicate to the LEAF and be able to sell them to LEAF owners. The madman has probably already got a prototype designed already.
Michael

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Driving electric since 1996


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mitch672
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Re: Leaf charing info.

Tue May 04, 2010 10:41 am

I'm sure mr Rudman is already on the case, or will be as soon as he can get his hands on a Leaf for experimentation with in December... I fully expect he'll make a model designed just for the Leaf, with the correct DC charging cord, or at a minimum, he'll have instructions on how to make it up, and where to source the parts required from :)

He's already working on a 54KW 480V 3 phase charger as well, looks like it contains 3 of the PFC-75's rack mounted and some other goodies, not cheap though ($24.5K)

http://www.manzanitamicro.com/index.php ... &Itemid=64
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EVDRIVER
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Re: Leaf charing info.

Tue May 04, 2010 3:12 pm

Once I get my car I will be looking into making this work, I have customized several PFC chargers for EVs before and it should be a good project. To Gary's point, the HV connection must go straight to the pack before BMS so the system will most likely need to talk back to the PFC- XX used. No different than any other setup that needs charge control.

mitch672
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Re: Leaf charing info.

Tue May 04, 2010 5:13 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:Once I get my car I will be looking into making this work, I have customized several PFC chargers for EVs before and it should be a good project. To Gary's point, the HV connection must go straight to the pack before BMS so the system will most likely need to talk back to the PFC- XX used. No different than any other setup that needs charge control.


if you are anywhere near Kingston, WA, Rich Rudman will probably be willing to work with you, he is interest in making a product for the Leaf. Still trying to get the full specs on the Level 3 standard/protocols, not easy to find.

http://www.manzanitamicro.com/index.php ... &Itemid=18
2012 Advanced Plug in Prius (sold)
I Support OpenEVSE: http://code.google.com/p/open-evse/
My Fuelly page: http://www.fuelly.com/driver/mitch672/prius-plugin
Tesla Model S 85KW Dolphin Grey VIN: 03245, delivered 1/17/2013

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EVDRIVER
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Re: Leaf charing info.

Tue May 04, 2010 6:21 pm

mitch672 wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:Once I get my car I will be looking into making this work, I have customized several PFC chargers for EVs before and it should be a good project. To Gary's point, the HV connection must go straight to the pack before BMS so the system will most likely need to talk back to the PFC- XX used. No different than any other setup that needs charge control.


if you are anywhere near Kingston, WA, Rich Rudman will probably be willing to work with you, he is interest in making a product for the Leaf. Still trying to get the full specs on the Level 3 standard/protocols, not easy to find.

http://www.manzanitamicro.com/index.php ... &Itemid=18



Thanks- I have worked with him in the past and have already contacted them. I have used many of his products over the years.

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planet4ever
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Re: Leaf charing info.

Tue May 04, 2010 10:57 pm

LTLFTcomposite wrote:I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere already so forgive the duplication, but why are there two charging ports on the leaf? I thought the J1772 standard supports 120VAC 15A connections as well as 240VAC and higher voltage DC supply.

One more comment on the question that started this flood of comments. Yes, J1772 is architected to support DC (external charger) in addition to AC (internal charger). But the Yazaki J1772 connector, which is what we tend to think of as J1772, and is what most if not all EV and PHEV makers seem to be adopting, is only approved up to 30A, 240V.

I believe the second charging port on the Leaf is not J1772-compliant at all, but is JARI Level 3 DC. That's a different standard that several Japanese auto makers have been pushing.
End of April 2013: Traded my 2011 SL for a 2013 S with charge pkg.

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garygid
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Re: Leaf charing info.

Wed May 05, 2010 8:52 am

I believe it is the older "square" j1772 connector that was limited to 30 amps. The 2009 version "round" connector used with the Leaf can take 70 amps, I believe.
See SOC/GID-Meter and CAN-Do Info
2011 LEAF, sold in 2015
2010 Prius, 2014 silver Tesla S
Nissan EVSE, mod to 240/120v 16A
PU: SDG&E
Solar PV: 33 x 225W -> 7 kW max AC
To Sell: X-treme 5000Li EV motorcycle

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