speedski97
Posts: 131
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:44 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Dec 2013
Location: Whittier Ca

Re: Dramatic Ahr rise after quick charge?

Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:03 pm

Time to start driving more if miles are not close. The battery needs to be cycled and hold the battery at full as much as you can. If you drove the battery low then brought it high that will get a better AH reading. Park the car at work with the heater on pull the pack low then fast charge at lunch? Drive the battery low then fast charge as much as you can. it worked for me.

DaveinOlyWA
Gold Member
Posts: 12221
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
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Re: Dramatic Ahr rise after quick charge?

Thu Aug 24, 2017 4:51 am

sandeen wrote:
DaveinOlyWA - are there really any established reports of a 4 bar loss that was not warrantied due to "not bad enough?" I think I've seen one denial in these forums because Nissan somehow determined the battery had been abused, but I don't remember any other such denial.

And yes, I agree it's more likely an accounting/measurement change than an actual battery health change, but on the other hand, there have been no reports of 4th bar loss above 43.5 Ahr, so I certainly don't want to take a long excursion back up above 44, for example. :)

Thanks,
-Eric


yeah there has but due to Nissan "bar slop" than anything else. bars go and sometimes bars come back. When the last bar disappears, you are very close to the warranty exchange level but not always guaranteed to be there. IIRC there have been a few that took theirs down right away to fail the battery test but were able to pass it (to qualify) a month later.

But that is not the main concern. I would be more concerned about the time and mileage you have to work with. Cutting it close is probably not the way I would play it. As is typical, I don't know where you stand on that?
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 26,100.2 miles.363GID Ahr 79.55Hx95.35%kwh28.1QCs227,L2's 237
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

sandeen
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 1:45 pm
Leaf Number: 026685
Location: Minnesota

Re: Dramatic Ahr rise after quick charge?

Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:21 am

I have 20,000 miles left, but only 5 months. And cold months at that.

Anyway, thanks for all the suggestions; I guess I was looking more for some hard data, hoping people had been keeping track of battery stats as I have and might be able to provide some insight into how their battery had actually behaved after quick charges.

Looking back over 10 or so quick charges since March, there were times when there was no strong effect in either direction, but 3 or 4 times it resulted in Ahr jumps of 0.15 to 0.25 in a day, an amount which is outside of the normal daily jitter that I see.

Thanks,
-Eric
2012 SL from TX, (mfg 8/12), used, dropped to 8 bars at 43.50 Ahr, 40,601 miles. my daily stats =/= my collected data on 4-bar losers

Reddy
Posts: 1436
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:09 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 006828
Location: Pasco, WA

Re: Dramatic Ahr rise after quick charge?

Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:52 pm

^More info needed. Location? You need to drive as much as possible. Since you've got 20,000 mi left on the warranty, it sounds like a super road drip is in your future. Here's my previous advice:
http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=22109&p=463241&hilit=stole#p463241
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 46.44 AHr; 40,067 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

sandeen
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 1:45 pm
Leaf Number: 026685
Location: Minnesota

Re: Dramatic Ahr rise after quick charge?

Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:04 pm

I'm in Minnesota, so Winter is Coming! Yeah, a road trip might be interesting.

But again, I was hoping for more data analysis & less anecdote. ;)

I hear everyone's advice about QC, and given that Nissan dings you for "too many" and the heat involved, it certainly seems like it would move the numbers down. It's just that my experience and my data doesn't seem to bear that out.

My biggest Ahr upswings have come on the day of, or after, a quick charge, and it takes weeks to return to where they were before. I can't explain it. I'm just wondering what other people have seen in practice (in, you know, numbers :) ).
Last edited by sandeen on Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2012 SL from TX, (mfg 8/12), used, dropped to 8 bars at 43.50 Ahr, 40,601 miles. my daily stats =/= my collected data on 4-bar losers

SageBrush
Posts: 1416
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Dramatic Ahr rise after quick charge?

Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:49 pm

Turn your winter into a hot summer with quick charging from a low SoC
And if possible, run the heater at full blast during the quick charge. Get that battery temp HOT
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

DaveinOlyWA
Gold Member
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Contact: Website

Re: Dramatic Ahr rise after quick charge?

Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:26 pm

ok we can go back and forth on this all day (why not? its been going on for years!) but the reality is nothing "puts back" capacity. LEAF Spy only parrots back what the car tells it and its method of measuring the battery is... well, lets just say it could be better.

As far as the dramatic rise? We have all seen it, posted hundreds of articles, testaments, pix, etc. about it but none of that matters.

you are in position to get a new pack and you REALLY need to get serious about this. you have plenty of miles and time but you need to get busy with it. I think you have a great chance of getting the warranty no matter what barring any long term storage situations or very very light driving. But at the same time you are taking more of a risk than I would take and most people consider me more than a bit crazy...
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 26,100.2 miles.363GID Ahr 79.55Hx95.35%kwh28.1QCs227,L2's 237
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

sandeen
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 1:45 pm
Leaf Number: 026685
Location: Minnesota

Re: Dramatic Ahr rise after quick charge?

Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:25 pm

I apologize - It was not my intent to go back and forth. Because sure, I've read all the advice before, etc. But my first post had specific questions:

    Is this large bump in AHr a normal effect of QC?
    How long have people seen it last?
    Is this a temporary blip or does it reset the curve?
What I was really hoping to see was some actual data about short & long term effects of quick charging. And people helpfully offered advice on battery degradation methods, which is great, but sure, it's all been covered before. I know the common wisdom is to QC and QC a lot. I have searched these forums a lot for this kind of thing; I know there are a few prior threads. And they help, but they're just short snapshots without much of a timeline.

My own experience (QC consistently bumping Ahr up for weeks), anecdotes I've read (QC bumps, QC slowing degradation curve), and data I've collected about 4 bar losers (nobody ever loses a bar above 43.5Ahr, median reported QC count is only eight (average under 50), etc) seem to point in the other direction to some degree. With all the LeafSpy data out there, I figured somebody would have actual datasets on QC effects in the longer term.

I'm sorry if I sound argumentative, I'm not trying to be. I was just looking for more real-world hard data. Maybe it's just not there.
I really do appreciate all the responses, and the fantastic amount of information and community that's in these forums.
I just like data, is all. :)

p.s. drees provided his long term Ahr data, thanks - I'll chew on that.
2012 SL from TX, (mfg 8/12), used, dropped to 8 bars at 43.50 Ahr, 40,601 miles. my daily stats =/= my collected data on 4-bar losers

DaveinOlyWA
Gold Member
Posts: 12221
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Dramatic Ahr rise after quick charge?

Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:58 am

sandeen wrote:
    Is this large bump in AHr a normal effect of QC?
    How long have people seen it last?
    Is this a temporary blip or does it reset the curve?



very

as little as 24 hours

again, does nothing. If you are regularly charging to full and using most of that charge on a daily basis the effects would be lessened.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 26,100.2 miles.363GID Ahr 79.55Hx95.35%kwh28.1QCs227,L2's 237
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 5583
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Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Dramatic Ahr rise after quick charge?

Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:13 am

sandeen wrote:I'm in Minnesota, so Winter is Coming!
Personally, I think you will NOT be able to get your fourth bar to disappear in the next five months.

Do you know where your car spent most of its life? I'm going to guess that it was in the southern part of the US. I own a MY2011 LEAF with 46,000 miles (versus 40,000 on yours) and it still has about 47.5 Ah of capacity (versus 43.5 on yours). My point is that your car degraded faster than my car for most of its life, but it is virtually impossible to get a LEAF to lose capacity at temperatures below about 40F. There is another poster here who is below 40 Ah who has not lost that last bar.

Your only option to lose that bar would be to ship it into the desert and pay someone to drive it for the next few months.

My suggestion is that you take care of your car to try to preserve the capacity which you have left.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
2011 miles at purchase. 10K miles on Apr 14, 2013. 20K miles (55.7Ah) on Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah) on Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah) on Feb 8, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

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