Extreme cold - drive battery appears dead - help

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yukonleaf

New member
Joined
Feb 5, 2018
Messages
4
Hi all:

I have a 2012 Leaf with winter package and left it in the car port when the temperature dropped below -25C (13 below F). It sat there plugged in but in my infinite wisdom I tripped the breaker for the charger to get it to not warm the car up one day and forgot to flick it back on (how much more stupid does it get??? ), Temperatures dropped to close to - 40C = 40 below F for several days at night and warming up to - 30C (22 below F) during the day

The 12 V battery is still good (12.45V) but the drive battery does not take any charge. I wrapped the car in a tarp and put a propane heater underneath (cautiously, so the contraption does not catch fire in my continued attempt to kill the car) and had it sitting there for an afternoon. No dice.....

Is there any other procedure other than warming up the batteries and hoping they did not burst to get the car charging again.
- I tried with the original Nissan trickle charger and EVSE - both show ready but don't charge;
- The dash does not show any warning light;
- zero bars of course for battery charge.

I am seriously worried I killed the battery. Any help/wisdom would be GREATLY appreciated!!

Thanks
Stephan
 
Per the manual:

If the outside temperature is -13F or less, the Li-ion battery may freeze and it cannot be charged or provide power to run the vehicle. Move the vehicle to a warm location.
also
Do not store the vehicle in temperatures below -13F for over seven days

Suggests that "freezing" might not cause permanent damage as long as it's not for too long. Warming the car may be all you need. It may take a while for hundreds of pounds of cold-soaked battery to rise to a useable temperature. A heated garage would be best. Also, as far as I know the cells don't contain water, but organic solvents. So I'm not sure "bursting" is a concern. I do know that metal plating can be a problem at very low temps, but that is if the battery is actively charging. Sounds like the car prevents that.

Looks like your weather will be warming over the coming week. Good luck!
 
Thanks so much for your replies Nubo and Alozzy!!
I don't have leafspy BUT - car is starting to take a charge - I am using the trickle charger to be extra careful.
Significant weight off my chest. Time for a glass of wine...
I have had the car for 3 winters now with no problem having it sit overnight at very low temps as long as it is plugged in. Seems the battery warmers are enough to keep the battery from getting too cold. But no external power supply for a week is of course deadly. I think the car was charged when the cold spell started so there was a lot of battery left to run the battery heaters, that was probably a good thing...

Anyhow - thanks again!
 
I seem to remember the term "hibernate" being used somewhere, suggesting that you just need to wait for the battery to warm up again. Lithium cells can swell and suffer damage, which is half the reason why they are in metal enclosures within the pack. Hopefully they didn't manage to swell any cases.
 
LeftieBiker said:
I seem to remember the term "hibernate" being used somewhere, suggesting that you just need to wait for the battery to warm up again. Lithium cells can swell and suffer damage, which is half the reason why they are in metal enclosures within the pack. Hopefully they didn't manage to swell any cases.

Yes, but Li-ion swelling is typically due to gassing from overcharge or shorts. The swelling and bursting upon freezing that can happen with Lead-Acid batteries due to their aqueous electrolyte, shouldn't be an issue with Li-ion.
 
Nubo said:
Also, as far as I know the cells don't contain water, but organic solvents.
That's correct. In fact, AESC went to great lengths to keep water OUT of these cells. The humidity level in the factory is kept to a very low level. Simply put, water kills Li-ion batteries.

I'm not sure about Li-ion, but one thing that kills Li-polymer batteries and causes them to swell is allowing them to sit fully discharged. When that happens, the hydrogen somehow leaks out of something and fills the pouch, never to return. (That said, I have seen some Li-polymer batteries reduce their swelling upon charging which others do not.)
 
Yes, water doesn't just harm lithium cells. It can make them burst into flames and/or explode. And yes on being run too low making lithium cells swell. Just not being constricted by a hard enclosure can also make lithium pouch cells swell.
 
yukonleaf said:
Thanks so much for your replies Nubo and Alozzy!!
I don't have leafspy BUT - car is starting to take a charge - I am using the trickle charger to be extra careful. Significant weight off my chest. Time for a glass of wine... I have had the car for 3 winters now with no problem having it sit overnight at very low temps as long as it is plugged in. Seems the battery warmers are enough to keep the battery from getting too cold. But no external power supply for a week is of course deadly. I think the car was charged when the cold spell started so there was a lot of battery left to run the battery heaters, that was probably a good thing...
LiON batteries do not like being charged quickly at extremely low temps (<0 F). I've read that an irreversible metal plating reaction can occur, resulting in permanent capacity loss. At extreme temperatures, the car will refuse to charge or only charge at 500 to 1000 W, even when connected to a 40 amp 240 V EVSE. It sounds like you found those temperatures. Good luck, it sounds like you didn't freeze the electrolyte (it's organic, not water, but can still freeze) or burst any cells, so you got lucky this time.

When it gets cold here (0 to 20 F), I specifically use up extra charge during the day (blasting the heater, driving inefficiently, taking extra trips, etc.) so that I can keep charging the battery all night on L1. This helps keep the battery "slightly" warmer. One day last winter I had 0 F and zero temperature bars showing on the dash for my 4 mi trip home. I drove a few extra miles and arrived at LBW (maybe 20 total that day, with the heat blasting 5 KW the entire time). I have a 2011 without the winter package that included the battery heater. In your environment, I would invest in heating pads under that battery (search MNL for a guy that did that in eastern Canada), a tarp, parking in an insulated garage, etc.
 
The day after ....
Well, it seems I was lucky. Checked out the Leaf after work today and still have my 11 capacity bars (91,000Km -but I think I got shafted with fake 12 bars when I bought the car in 2015 - had lost one bar about 20,000Km back).

Took it for a drive and that confirmed what I had expected in terms of endurance for this kind of temperature. Even got the battery to warm up to show one bar. It sure was a shock that I could not charge yesterday, but based on the comments, the likelihood that I swelled some cells I think is pretty limited.

Thanks again for all you guys' input, it is great to have so much help out there!
 
yukonleaf said:
The day after ....
Well, it seems I was lucky. Checked out the Leaf after work today and still have my 11 capacity bars (91,000Km -but I think I got shafted with fake 12 bars when I bought the car in 2015 - had lost one bar about 20,000Km back).

Took it for a drive and that confirmed what I had expected in terms of endurance for this kind of temperature. Even got the battery to warm up to show one bar. It sure was a shock that I could not charge yesterday, but based on the comments, the likelihood that I swelled some cells I think is pretty limited.

Thanks again for all you guys' input, it is great to have so much help out there!

Glad your battery & charging system is working. I second the Leaf spy acquisition particularity if you are down 1 cap bar for monitoring bat temp and of course capacity etc . Sounds like the battery heaters do a pretty good job at those temps. Just a couple of questions:
What Km/kWh do you get under those conditions? (summer as well )
Do you carry a b/up generator if driving beyond range?
 
Hi ElectricEddy:

Yes, will look into LeafSpy -
I have to get back to you on Km/KWh with exact numbers - I don't think it is much worse than in Summer - around 5-6 if I recall correctly. The secret is that I do not use the heat just dress warm plus seat heat and steering wheel heat and I warm the car up prior to departure, but that does not count in the KM/KWh calculation. There is a bit more drag in the bearings with stiffer grease and the winter tires have a bit more resistance. Other than that it's just a lot less battery capacity.
I only use the car to commute to work. 22km one way. I stop using the E-car and switch to a gas-burner below -20C as the battery capacity is just falling off a cliff below that temperature (and range bars do erratic things that scare the heck out of me like rapidly disappearing and then all of a sudden reappearing). Also, I am loosing a lot of battery just parking at work (cannot plug in) to the battery warmers. Typically I am down a bar for heating batteries during the day.

The thought of having backup power (generator) has occured but - I have a Syncro Vanagon TDI swap (bad press there ...) that gets me in the bush (paddling etc.) and a Volvo V70 that gets me to far places (if my daughter is not using it), so I decided against it. But, I drove the Leaf now for about 30,000 km just commuting to town during the past 3 years. So there is $4K savings in fuel, oil etc. and about 15,000 lbs CO2 that did not get emitted. :)
 
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