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Re: Chademo killed my new 2018 Leaf

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:47 pm
by RegGuheert
Mike04 wrote:Service guy says there was no change to the CHAdeMO port, it is the same hardware and software as earlier models. So hopefully this was a one in a million fluke, the stars and moon alligned just right, and not an issue with the new Leaf.
I find that a bit hard to swallow. Then again I find a lot that I hear from Nissan service guys hard to swallow.

Re: Chademo killed my new 2018 Leaf

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:03 pm
by Mike04
RegGuheert wrote:
Mike04 wrote:Service guy says there was no change to the CHAdeMO port, it is the same hardware and software as earlier models. So hopefully this was a one in a million fluke, the stars and moon alligned just right, and not an issue with the new Leaf.
I find that a bit hard to swallow. Then again I find a lot that I hear from Nissan service guys hard to swallow.
Yeah, your prbably right about that. I don't think he would know if something changed.

Re: Chademo killed my new 2018 Leaf

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:47 pm
by DarthPuppy
I'm inclined to think it is an EVSE issue and not an Leaf issue.

1 - That EVSE had just previously reported a ground fault error message.
2 - What can the car realistically do back to the EVSE that it wouldn't be designed to handle and would be able to do so if it was working properly? The fact that unit died and smoked means the issue is in that unit. The car's systems likely just got in the way of a nasty spike from an improperly grounded and malfunctioning EVSE.

Of course, I'm not an engineer. Any of you have counter points on the above logic?

Of past issues with the Leaf and AV units, etc., were those issues of the car not charging from them? Or were those issues of the unit dying and killing the car too? I would think the former as that could reasonably easily be fixed with a Leaf firmware update. But the later would be more of an EVSE issue. So I think this must be different than that issue.

Re: Chademo killed my new 2018 Leaf

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:50 pm
by DarthPuppy
Either way, you should be getting either a replacement car from Nissan or a check from the EVSE. I'm afraid it could be a while before the correct party owns up to the responsibility and might require legal action to get.

Have you contacted your insurance company? If you have comprehensive coverage, this might fit under that policy. If so, your best bet might be to collect on the claim and let them collect from either Nissan or the EVSE company.

Re: Chademo killed my new 2018 Leaf

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:03 am
by RegGuheert
DarthPuppy wrote:I'm inclined to think it is an EVSE issue and not an Leaf issue.

1 - That EVSE had just previously reported a ground fault error message.
2 - What can the car realistically do back to the EVSE that it wouldn't be designed to handle and would be able to do so if it was working properly? The fact that unit died and smoked means the issue is in that unit. The car's systems likely just got in the way of a nasty spike from an improperly grounded and malfunctioning EVSE.

Of course, I'm not an engineer. Any of you have counter points on the above logic?

Of past issues with the Leaf and AV units, etc., were those issues of the car not charging from them? Or were those issues of the unit dying and killing the car too? I would think the former as that could reasonably easily be fixed with a Leaf firmware update. But the later would be more of an EVSE issue. So I think this must be different than that issue.
The thread is about a CHAdeMO unit, which means this is not an EVSE, but rather we are talking about a charger. IMO, the potential for damage is much higher with a charger since the power levels of the sources on both sides of the connection are so much higher. As such, any violation of the handshaking which occurs with CHAdeMO can be catastrophic. With an EVSE, typically it is only the on-board charger and the AC wiring to it which are at risk.

Re: Chademo killed my new 2018 Leaf

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:18 am
by davewill
DarthPuppy wrote:I'm inclined to think it is an EVSE issue and not an Leaf issue.

1 - That EVSE had just previously reported a ground fault error message.
2 - What can the car realistically do back to the EVSE that it wouldn't be designed to handle and would be able to do so if it was working properly? The fact that unit died and smoked means the issue is in that unit. The car's systems likely just got in the way of a nasty spike from an improperly grounded and malfunctioning EVSE.

Of course, I'm not an engineer. Any of you have counter points on the above logic?

Of past issues with the Leaf and AV units, etc., were those issues of the car not charging from them? Or were those issues of the unit dying and killing the car too? I would think the former as that could reasonably easily be fixed with a Leaf firmware update. But the later would be more of an EVSE issue. So I think this must be different than that issue.
Because it's a charger and not an EVSE, it connects directly to the HV bus of the car. The car could close the contactor on the pack when the voltage from the charger was not close to the voltage of the pack, which could cause a large current to flow.

Re: Chademo killed my new 2018 Leaf

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:16 pm
by Mike04
RegGuheert wrote:
DarthPuppy wrote:I'm inclined to think it is an EVSE issue and not an Leaf issue.

1 - That EVSE had just previously reported a ground fault error message.
2 - What can the car realistically do back to the EVSE that it wouldn't be designed to handle and would be able to do so if it was working properly? The fact that unit died and smoked means the issue is in that unit. The car's systems likely just got in the way of a nasty spike from an improperly grounded and malfunctioning EVSE.

Of course, I'm not an engineer. Any of you have counter points on the above logic?

Of past issues with the Leaf and AV units, etc., were those issues of the car not charging from them? Or were those issues of the unit dying and killing the car too? I would think the former as that could reasonably easily be fixed with a Leaf firmware update. But the later would be more of an EVSE issue. So I think this must be different than that issue.
The thread is about a CHAdeMO unit, which means this is not an EVSE, but rather we are talking about a charger. IMO, the potential for damage is much higher with a charger since the power levels of the sources on both sides of the connection are so much higher. As such, any violation of the handshaking which occurs with CHAdeMO can be catastrophic. With an EVSE, typically it is only the on-board charger and the AC wiring to it which are at risk.
This is what they are telling me. It seems it is not so straightforward to determine which is at fault. They sent someome to look at the car this week and I am told he wass not able to determine. A team from the factory in Tennesee is scheduled to come out on Tuesday to look further.

Meanwhile Greenlots has been talking to Nissan and says they are waiting for instructions from Nissan. Nissan tells me my case is going to their committee to decide if I should get a new car from Nissan and they tell me I should hear from them within 15 days.

So I wait.

Re: Chademo killed my new 2018 Leaf

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:23 pm
by cwerdna
RegGuheert wrote:
DarthPuppy wrote:I'm inclined to think it is an EVSE issue and not an Leaf issue.

1 - That EVSE had just previously reported a ground fault error message.

...
But the later would be more of an EVSE issue. So I think this must be different than that issue.
The thread is about a CHAdeMO unit, which means this is not an EVSE, but rather we are talking about a charger. IMO, the potential for damage is much higher with a charger since the power levels of the sources on both sides of the connection are so much higher. As such, any violation of the handshaking which occurs with CHAdeMO can be catastrophic. With an EVSE, typically it is only the on-board charger and the AC wiring to it which are at risk.
FWIW, https://web.archive.org/web/20160304054 ... speeds.pdf considers DC chargers to be "EVSE includes an off-board charger".

Re: Chademo killed my new 2018 Leaf

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:30 am
by RegGuheert
cwerdna wrote:FWIW, https://web.archive.org/web/20160304054 ... speeds.pdf considers DC chargers to be "EVSE includes an off-board charger".
Interesting. Thanks for the correction. Makes sense, but I've never heard them referred to as an EVSE before.

Re: Chademo killed my new 2018 Leaf

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:48 am
by DaveinOlyWA
RegGuheert wrote:
cwerdna wrote:FWIW, https://web.archive.org/web/20160304054 ... speeds.pdf considers DC chargers to be "EVSE includes an off-board charger".
Interesting. Thanks for the correction. Makes sense, but I've never heard them referred to as an EVSE before.

Looks like a Category with weakly defined sub categories.... :roll: