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Marktm
Gold Member
Posts: 380
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 09 Jan 2016
Leaf Number: 022737

Leaf revival

Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:12 pm

I see many 2011/2012/2013 Leafs that are such a bargain here in Houston, TX - especially those with low bars (7 or less). I was extremely lucky to have purchased a like new 2012 SL two years ago that Nissan efficiently and graciously replaced the traction battery a year and 4 months ago - for free (Lizard). The car is so great to drive, but is suffering the same fate of battery fatigue quite quickly. At 36,000 miles, it is yet like a new car in most respects. I'm wondering what my options are over the next couple of years:
1. Negotiate with Nissan for a clean replacement? Like old cell phones, will the old model batteries still be good?
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1111264_new-life-for-old-nissan-leaf-electric-car-battery-replacement-and-what-it-took
2. Will a battery rebuild industry exist (sort of like the Prius) that makes economic sense? This is doubt because simply too few exist.
3. Can a 30 KWH battery swap industry start? Seems doubtful - how many of these batteries have actually been made?
4. Give it up for scrap and buy a new one? Most of these older Leafs are still excellent vehicles in all respects except the battery - what a shame.
5. A DIY project :cry: is just not for me.
2012 Leaf SL; 36,000 miles. Battery replaced November 1st, 2016.
Rural cabin with 6750 watts Grid tied PV. Off-grid solar Leaf charging capable (level II).

cmwade77
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:04 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Nov 2017

Re: Leaf revival

Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:51 pm

There already is a battery rebuild/reconditioning industry, see https://www.evhybridshop.com/battery-conditioning as an example, they have shops all over the place.

The real question to ask is why the battery is degrading so quickly.

soldcake
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:47 am
Delivery Date: 19 Jun 2016
Leaf Number: 311414

Re: Leaf revival

Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:57 pm

cmwade77 wrote:There already is a battery rebuild/reconditioning industry, see https://www.evhybridshop.com/battery-conditioning as an example, they have shops all over the place.


Are they legit business?
May-2018 15553mi 68.6Ahr 86%SOH 80%Hx
Nov-2017 11043mi 70.4Ahr 88%SOH 82%Hx
Sep-2016 1050mi 74.3Ahr 93%SOH 89%Hx
2016 Leaf White SV + no premium package + rain visor + 40psi :roll:
(BayArea California)

cmwade77
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:04 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Nov 2017

Re: Leaf revival

Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:03 pm

soldcake wrote:
cmwade77 wrote:There already is a battery rebuild/reconditioning industry, see https://www.evhybridshop.com/battery-conditioning as an example, they have shops all over the place.


Are they legit business?

Yes, but each shop is individually owned so the quality of service will vary. Basically, it is a network of independent shops that all specialize in Hybrid and Electric Vehicles. Think kind of like looking for a AAA approved repair shop, but for electric vehicles.

User avatar
Marktm
Gold Member
Posts: 380
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 09 Jan 2016
Leaf Number: 022737

Re: Leaf revival

Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:00 am

cmwade77 wrote:There already is a battery rebuild/reconditioning industry, see https://www.evhybridshop.com/battery-conditioning as an example, they have shops all over the place.

The real question to ask is why the battery is degrading so quickly.


Here in Houston there are a number of Prius Hybrid replacement shops - have never seen a Leaf replacement offered - anyone know of such?
2012 Leaf SL; 36,000 miles. Battery replaced November 1st, 2016.
Rural cabin with 6750 watts Grid tied PV. Off-grid solar Leaf charging capable (level II).

User avatar
Stanton
Posts: 2048
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:56 am
Delivery Date: 01 Sep 2011
Leaf Number: 7458
Location: Plano, TX
Contact: Website Twitter

Re: Leaf revival

Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:45 am

I am in a similar situation (warranty battery replacement), but original owner of the car (with more miles).
While the replacement (Lizard) battery is doing a bit better than the original, I know that day will come when I need to make the same decision: replace or move on. At that time, I believe I will either:
1) Have Nissan replace the battery (at my cost)
2) Trade it in on another EV (Leaf 2.0?)
At this time, I still believe that only Nissan can both obtain a (new) battery pack and reliably "mate" it to the car.
2011 Blue Ocean SV w/floor mats & window tint
12v LiFePO4 battery & FIAMM 74100 horns
Wet Okole seat covers (front)
Tor's low-power heater mod
2013 sun visor
3G modem upgrade
L2 EVSE Upgrade
Battery Pack replaced (Rev E) @51 months and 41k miles

SageBrush
Posts: 2397
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Leaf revival

Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:00 am

As a money question, I would just calculate pennies per mile.
$6000/40k miles works out to 15 cents a mile.

That is a pretty reasonable cap cost to run a car, so the real question is whether the car fulfills the owner's drive requirements.
The economics pencil out much nicer with PV :-)
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles

cmwade77
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:04 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Nov 2017

Re: Leaf revival

Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:45 am

SageBrush wrote:As a money question, I would just calculate pennies per mile.
$6000/40k miles works out to 15 cents a mile.

That is a pretty reasonable cap cost to run a car, so the real question is whether the car fulfills the owner's drive requirements.
The economics pencil out much nicer with PV :-)

Yeah, but you should get at least 60,000 out of a new battery, after all that is the capacity warranty on them and if you purchase a new battery, it comes with a new warranty, so it really should be $0.10. That being said if you buy a new battery, then it drops below the threshold within the warranty you will get another battery, so you could end up getting near 120,000 miles on the $6,000 investment if you do it right.

SageBrush
Posts: 2397
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Leaf revival

Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:01 am

cmwade77 wrote:
SageBrush wrote:As a money question, I would just calculate pennies per mile.
$6000/40k miles works out to 15 cents a mile.

That is a pretty reasonable cap cost to run a car, so the real question is whether the car fulfills the owner's drive requirements.
The economics pencil out much nicer with PV :-)

Yeah, but you should get at least 60,000 out of a new battery, after all that is the capacity warranty on them and if you purchase a new battery, it comes with a new warranty, so it really should be $0.10. That being said if you buy a new battery, then it drops below the threshold within the warranty you will get another battery, so you could end up getting near 120,000 miles on the $6,000 investment if you do it right.

The warranty is 60k miles/5yrs, whichever comes first.

It is a rare 24 kWh LEAF owner who reaches the mile limit before the time limit.
5 years * 8000m/yr = 40k miles

Take a look at the posts of people who have taken advantage of the warranty and keep in mind that Nissan has planned the warranty to just last long enough, meaning the battery capacity drops to below 9 bars just after warranty lapse. A few "lucky" owners get replacement batteries, the remainder post threads like this one or dump the car as a failed, expensive exercise.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles

goldbrick
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Colorado front range

Re: Leaf revival

Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:15 pm

My 2017 has the longer warranty. I'm sure it will satisfy my needs even at 8 bars but still.....something about this whole affair just doesn't sit right with me.

But on the other hand, I just chatted with a co-worker who has done the third maintenance item on his Leaf after 40k miles: he replaced the wipers. The first 2 were new tires and washer fluid.

If my Leaf does as well I will consider it a win. I do all the maintenance on my ICE cars and it adds up. If I had to pay someone to do it, it would be terrible. I also get to charge free at work currently so while that is small $ it is also nice. Currently at 92% SOH according to LeafSpy at 4k miles. However, the car started at 95% as far as I can tell and still shows 120m range on a full charge (I live in CO and drive the speed limit :mrgreen: ) . I'm curious to see how things end up after the next summer.

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